3 way pre-flop cap and I flop a set of jacks...

[KSOT]

Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB is loose-passive/passive (only 60 hands of data), but I had been catching a lot of premium starting hands and I thought my PF raises were beginning to bother people.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls.

River: (18.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 24.50 BB



Overplayed?

[Jakesta]

Just call the river bet. An LPP would not play AA this aggressively.

You might even consider calling down from the turn 3bet.

[Bodhi]

Why didn't you cap the river?

[Jakesta]

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you cap the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think capping the river here against someone who has 3bet both the flop and turn is +EV? I don't.

[Bodhi]

We have the second nuts. I think AA is much more likely than KK, as a passive player wouldn't raise so much preflop with KK.

[Jakesta]

[ QUOTE ]
Passive player wouldn't raise so much preflop with KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes they would. AA/KK are the two hands that almost all players will 3bet with.

If I have AA here, then I am calling down from the turn raise, worrying about the likely set of Kings/Jacks. If I have KK, I'm jamming like SB is, hoping that someone will overplay their set of Jacks.

[KSOT]

Third nuts. 9T beats me, but I just knew he didn't have that.

[Bodhi]

Ummm, we have the 2nd nuts.

[Jakesta]

I am asking you how you would play AA in this situation, Bodhi. I don't care that we have the second nuts. Second place wins you no money. Put yourself in SB's position. Would you play AA this way? That is the only other feasible hand besides KK, and I cannot seeing a loose-passive player playing AA this way.

[Jakesta]

[ QUOTE ]
Third nuts. 9T beats me, but I just knew he didn't have that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget about 56. Just saying.

[Kumubou]

Third nuts -- T9 says Hi with the nut straight.

I would slow down after the turn three-bet and C/C the river UI. If he is maniacal (as in he will cap the turn with ace high), then yeah go to war.

-K

[Jakesta]

[ QUOTE ]
Third nuts -- T9 says Hi with the nut straight.

I would slow down after the turn three-bet and C/C the river UI. If he is maniacal (as in he will cap the turn with ace high), then yeah go to war.

-K

[/ QUOTE ]

Fourth nuts. 56 says Hello with the second nuts. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[KSOT]

Good call. I'm still steaming from the hand. Too early to sit back and analyze it. That's what you guys are for! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Jakesta]

[ QUOTE ]
Good call. I'm still steaming from the hand. Too early to sit back and analyze it. That's what you guys are for! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

He had KK, didn't he? Tell me so Bodhi can adjust his advice.

[Bodhi]

Apply the law of subjective rationality. You might not play AA that way, but a bad player sees AA and routinely goes berzerk because the hand holds a mythical place in his poor understanding of the game. I'm not saying he doesn't have KK, I'm just saying that AA is a strong possibility.

If the hero lost then his only mistake was not losing that last bet on the river.

[Jakesta]

I'm saying that playing the hand as you suggest is -EV. 90% of players will not play AA that strongly, especially AGAINST SOMEONE WHO CAPPED THEM PREFLOP, with a K and J BOTH out there.

Kumubou agrees with me 100% btw, and it appears that we were correct.

There is no way NOT to lose a lot of money with this hand, but playing it as you suggest is pure spewage, for the reasons I have listed.

[KSOT]

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has Kd Ks (three of a kind, kings).
Hero has Jc Js (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: SB wins 24.50 BB. </font>

[Bodhi]

65 and T9 are not really plausible holdings. On the flop we have the 2nd nuts.

[Jakesta]

I knew it. Sucks for you bro, flopped set over set is so rare. But just call down from the turn 3bet and Check-call the river. That is the correct line.

[Jakesta]

[ QUOTE ]
65 and T9 are not really plausible holdings. On the flop we have the 2nd nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong to play the hand as you suggest. I know that they are not plausible holdings. I cap this flop as well, but capping the turn after he 3bets is slightly -EV. Raising the river is definitely -EV except against maniacs.

You HAVE to know when to slow down. Play your OPPONENTS cards as well as your own.

[Bodhi]

[ QUOTE ]
flopped set over set is so rare.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Jakesta]

God, why are you being so dense, Bodhi?

It IS rare, but it becomes much clearer after he 3bets the turn that he has the set of Kings. If you can't see that then you are totally overplaying a lot of your hands I think.

[istewart]

Depending on how passive he is capping preflop might not be a good idea. But, as you said, only 60 hands.

[Bodhi]

Why are you typing in caps you weak-tight sissy? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[bottomset]

most passives get scared with AA after heavy action

after SB 3bets the turn

its prob
75-80% KK
20-25% AA at best

you can't fold but it looks pretty bad, unless that case J hits

[KSOT]

I was SO close to just calling the river too, but my dumbass was just too suspicious. Now I know.

[Bodhi]

No, my advice for this hand doesn't indicate habitual overplaying of hands because we'll never have the opportunity for this often enough.

[Jakesta]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you typing in caps you weak-tight sissy? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That's TAG to you, mister. And TAG &gt; LAG. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[DA MICRO MASTAH]

[ QUOTE ]
Just call the river bet. An LPP would not play AA this aggressively.

You might even consider calling down from the turn 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quit giving terrible advice, you awful forum troll.

For the rest of you, please IGNORE THIS HORRIBLE POSTER. His advice is obviously not serious--he is trying to keep all of you from capturing the great profits to be found at the Party 50.

[Jakesta]

No one is going to take you seriously. I am a respected poster in this microlimit forum with lots of friends.

You, on the other hand, are a stupid troll posting bad advice and you will rapidly become hated if you persist.

[DA MICRO MASTAH]

[ QUOTE ]
lots of friends.

[/ QUOTE ]
All I have to say is this.

New friends are like silver,
but old friends are like gold.

Will you be my new friend Jakesta? Together we can CRUSH the Party 50! What a grand alliance it would be!

You don't have to answer now.

[hicherbie]

with a non maniac, the pfr, that board, and turn action, I call villians bet on river.

if hes really passive i might have started calling down eariler.

[Jakesta]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lots of friends.

[/ QUOTE ]
All I have to say is this.

New friends are like silver,
but old friends are like gold.

Will you be my new friend Jakesta? Together we can CRUSH the Party 50! What a grand alliance it would be!

You don't have to answer now.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://home.houston.rr.com/gopha1/other/stfu_arnold.jpg

[Stinkybeaver]

even though his play seriously indicates a KK holding I think this will happen so rarely that you can't slow down just because of this one holding that beats you.

I think its well played.

[DA MICRO MASTAH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lots of friends.

[/ QUOTE ]
All I have to say is this.

New friends are like silver,
but old friends are like gold.

Will you be my new friend Jakesta? Together we can CRUSH the Party 50! What a grand alliance it would be!

You don't have to answer now.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://home.houston.rr.com/gopha1/other/stfu_arnold.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Jake,
http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10059/playerhate.jpg

[Jakesta]

Haha.