BL vs. Party. 500 @ 22s. Now what? (medium content)

[Big Limpin']

OK, here it is. I played five hundred games this past couple weeks at my new 'adopted home' of Party Poker.
At first the 800 stacks to some getting used to, but i think i was settled in pretty much after the first 100.
I consider this sample size adequate to know where i stand. I dont need my ROI to three significant figures. I just wanted something credible, so i could ask the question 'this is what i could achieve. Now what?'

So....(drumroll)...apparently im a low 20% ROI player at the PP $22s. Hmmmm. I dont want to say im all that dissapointed, but i thought i could do better. But, it is what it is. I ran bad some, and i ran good some. I took beats, and i gave beats. I think 500 is enough to know that im not going to be cracking 30% (let alone 25%) at this level unless i improve some facets. This will come with time (i hope).


http://img198.echo.cx/img198/4317/roianditmgraph0cg.png (http://www.imageshack.us)http://

http://img198.echo.cx/img198/7606/profitgraph3xh.png (http://www.imageshack.us)


Now, the finish distriubution makes it abundantly clear why i'm 42%ITM and only 22%ROI.

http://img198.echo.cx/img198/9540/finishgraph8th.png (http://www.imageshack.us)

**********************************************

OK, this is where you guys come in. I'm through with these 22s. Yes, i know i have things to fix, but humping this level is not the quickest way to fix them. So, whats next?

I can make the natural progression to the $33s. Or jump straight to $55s. The former is appealing because it seems like he normal thing to do. The latter has some possible benifits though. First, i was born and raised on 1500 stacks games, so the 1000 chips will benefit me. Also, i hear incessnant moaning in the forum about all the grinders at $33.
I throw in 8 tabling as an afterthought. Need to buy another monitor first

I am adequately bankrolled for all options, and am accustomed to playing those levels on other sites, so there isnt a 'scared money' issue.

I will do my next 500 at the level that wins this poll.
Please vote with my best interests in mind /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks, BL

PS. if its not too personal, would any of you volunteer your stats at the 22s over a large sample size, especially if you moved up? I'd like to get an idea of how much your ROI dropped off when you hit the 33s/55s.

Have a nice day. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[freemoney]

dont 8 table the 22s, move up you are much better off.

[runner4life7]

I chose quad the 33s just because I'm a fan of a nice progression and it gives you something to look forward to at the 50s, which is what I am doing right now. Just dont come to my tables /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[1C5]

Nice stats. I only have 350 $22 SnGs saved on my computer but I will post my stats after 500 also to compare.

I am in the group that says if you can't beat the 33s, don't play the 55s.

Go for the 33s and then move to the 55s. If you can't beat the 33s, learn how to and then play them until you beat them. Then move to the 55s.

8 tabling the 22s is not bad if you want to build a BR with a smaller risk and swings. But you have the BR so go for the 33s now.

[1C5]

Oh wait, I don't look at my ROI anymore, nevermind. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[chisness]

I'm most interested in hearing what people think regarding the $30s vs. the $50s. There have been lots of discussions -- does it seem true that if a player can beat the $30s he can also beat the $50s for at least as much $$/game (not necessarily ROI)?

[Shilly]

This is very interesting, because I am in the EXACT same boat as you. I'll volunteer my stats at the 20+2s:

Tournies: 468
Net Amount: $2,544.00
ROI: 24.61%
ITM: 42.09
Avg. Finish: 4.29

Finish Distribution:
1st: 62
2nd: 64
3rd: 71
4th: 65
5th: 63
6th: 53
7th: 45
8th: 18
9th: 18
10th: 9

FWIW, I've played 80 33's with an ROI of 4.11% and ITM of 39.51%, but this is pretty insignificant.

[Voltron87]

congrats on your solid results. profit!

sort of unrelated, but does anyone know If i can look at my sng results in pt as "1-100", "101-200", etc? I know how to segregate them by date but not in blocks of 100.

[DasLeben]

Solid.

Considering I'm really hammering at my game at the moment, I'd be interested in trading HHs with you, if you're interested. I play $10+1s, but considering the similarities between them and the $20+2s, I think we could both learn a few things. Lemme know.

[treeofwisdom7]

[ QUOTE ]
dont 8 table the 22s, move up you are much better off.

[/ QUOTE ]
i put 8 table but i dont like multi too much.. do what everyone else says.. but if you think you can stay at the 22's and plug leaks then sure i think in the long run plugging a few leaks for a month or so might be the best.

if you stay at the 22's i'll see you soon.

climbing over the fence on the 10's..

GL

[durron597]

I would go to the $33s because you are used to the 800 chip stacks - wait until your BR is really big before you go to a format change.

I also think all players should focus on making sure they always play their A-game before the move to 8 tabling. So I say go to the $33s and play a few hundred more before going to the $55s.

[Phoenix1010]

Congrats, solid stats. The first part of your post resonated with me, because I remember feeling the same. I have 1,026 22s logged, at about 26%-27% ROI (704 at 30.7%, 322 at 18.2%. I'm too lazy to do the math to combine them, or figure out how to consolidate my spreadsheets). I remember being really disappointed with myself as my ROI started settling out at around 30%. Reading the forum back then made it seem like 30% should be a cakewalk for anyone with half a brain, and if you're really any good you should get 40% easy. I began to experience extreme self doubt, and it hurt my game, and my overall mindset. Of course this was all nonsense, and I don't have to explain why (Gigabet and Irieguy have done a much better job of it than I would put it in the effort to try to match). Just keep in mind: beating the game is beating the game, win at the whatever rate you're capable of, and keep improving. You seem to have the right mindset about it though, so that's good to hear.

About your actual question, 8 tabling the 22's is by far the worst option. Learning to be a winner at higher levels is orders of magnitude more important than learning how to play more tables at once. There are many reasons for this, again, I won't rehash it because I'm sure it's been covered. As to the decision between the 33s and the 55s, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with what's been said (both here and in previous threads). Take a shot at the 55s if your bankroll will be comfortable there. You are very unlikely to learn anything new from the 33s that you haven't gotten from the 22s, and learning to beat the 33s is not going to help you very much in learning to beat the higher games. You will only be slowing down your improvement. Some of the strong players who post here skipped the 11s through 33s altogether. If money is a big issue for you (if you depend on your poker income, or if the inevitable adjustment period downswing will really hurt you), then you should strongly consider going through the 33s. Otherwise, take your shot at the 55s.

-Phoenix

[pergesu]

You're only playin the $22s right now to get adjusted to party. Well you adjusted fine. It's all about the $$. Get to the $55s

[1C5]

As for 8 tabling, I actually think it has helped me as by playing 8 sometimes, 4 now seems easy as I have much more time to evaluate things it seems.

I myself like a combo of 4 and 8 tabling.

[ilya]

Great stats. I say move to the $33s, quad maybe 500. If you continue to feel that you're outplaying your opponents by a bunch, try the $55s.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
As for 8 tabling, I actually think it has helped me as by playing 8 sometimes, 4 now seems easy as I have much more time to evaluate things it seems.

I myself like a combo of 4 and 8 tabling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes learning to 8 table has plenty of benefits (quickening your decision time, improving your ability to assess situations at a glance, massively increasing hourly rate). I think everyone should learn to 8 table at least. However, in terms of improving your game, moving up in limits, even if you have to play fewer tables, is far far far more important.

-Phoenix

[1C5]

True.

[Nottom]

I didn't read much, but I wish my ROI/ITM charts were that flat.

OK i read more now ...
I voted to move to the 50s, there are still plenty of donks there and I'm a firm believer in playing as high as your BR allows until you feel you are being outplayed. You can grind away at the 30s and have a nice 15% ROI or you can play the 50s have a 10% ROI make more money, get more rakeback, and more importantly be getting experience with the 1000 chip stack against slightly better players which will help you immensely as you play your next 500 SNGs.

If you move up to the 50s and feel that you are being outplayed, then there is certainly no shame in going back to the 30s or even the 20s to further work on improving your game.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
congrats on your solid results. profit!

sort of unrelated, but does anyone know If i can look at my sng results in pt as "1-100", "101-200", etc? I know how to segregate them by date but not in blocks of 100.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just play around with the date ranges until you get as close as you can to 100 SNGs.

[Big Limpin']

ok, first off, i'd like to give a big 'thank you' to everyone who voted/commented, and for the kind words of support.

Unfortunately, the poll results were too bloody close. Same with the split decision in commentary. I really meant it when i said id do whatever the results were. But in the event of a tie...well, screw it im doing whatever i wnat /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm gonna rip off 500 @ 33s, and then be done with 800s forever. Even if my stats blow. Hahahaha very responisle strategy i know.

Expect post #2 in the series "BL vs Party. 500 @33s" in about 2 weeks.