The Best Value Bet in History

[Clarkmeister]

5 handed game, two very good players who both know the other can play. SB raises with QJo, BB calls.

SB bets the flop dark, BB calls dark.

Flop is QcJsTc

Turn is 7d. SB checks, BB checks.

River is a red K. SB bets, BB calls. SB declares "this is The Best Value Bet in History" and flips up his hand.

Thoughts?

[Justin A]

I really don't see how this could be the best value bet in history.

[A_C_Slater]

No way, dude.

This is the best value bet in history.

http://www.tommyangelo.com/articles/the_ogre_and_me.htm

[Robk]

this isnt a spot where id check the turn as sb. too many weak draws/ pairs will check behind. and this flop is too imposing for the BB to try to move you off.

i think the river bet is routine. depending on how you want to discount his aces (assuming hell reraise pf often), youre probably a 60% favorite (edit: when called, i mean) as imo any pair will call fearing you have a total bluff. (if he always reraisies pf with an ace youre about 65-35 to win.) and a bluff raise seems quite unlikely.

[bicyclekick]

surely no where near the best value bet in history.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't see how this could be the best value bet in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Especially since it was obvious to the other 3 players at the table that his hand was no good.

BB had 9T and HHWG.

[andyfox]

Would a check-raise have worked?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Would a check-raise have worked?

[/ QUOTE ]

Doubt it, but I think a bet on the turn would have worked. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif


BTW, I wasn't in this hand.

[DcifrThs]

haven't read any responses, but

a) bb smoke called the flop before it was dealt and also said, "i have to call with this hand, there's nothing else to do but call with this hand."

b) the bb, giving me credit later for "creativity" with respect to going for a turn checkraise, could have bet the turn with many hands he "had to call with" in the bb and smoke called.

c) no more excuses. it was a dumb statement, by an "obtuse/naive/other adjective here that doesn't quite fit" guy. and, also, just to make sure we all know how bad the "value bet" was...

the river was the KING OF CLUBS making the final board QcJsTc[x][Kc] when i bet my QJo.

the only hands that call me here that i beat are JT(which bb would have likely bet on the turn and i could have c'red) and K8s (which the bb couldn't have "only called with" because he'd likely 3 bet my sorry ass.)

however, there was SOME slight redemption...

folded to me on the button.

same bb now in the sb. i open raise K9o, sb 3 bets and smoke bets the flop after my call.

flop is Q83rb (or something like that) i call his flop smoke bet.

sb then smoke checks the turn and i either smooth bet it or smoke bet it i can't remember. he says "ok, ok, take it."

somebody then says (can't remember who) "turn up the bluff, its good for the game (which makes me think it had to be clark)" to which i flip up K9o and clark then says "thats not a bluff, THATS VALUE!!"

and clark, thanks for putting up the singular worst play i made the entire night (other than my AsQx flop call) /images/graemlins/smirk.gif ....oh, and what makes it an even STUPIDER comment to make after a bad value bet, is that the ENTIRE TABLE was filled with very good knowledgeable players (except maybe the 1 seat who i didn't know but didn't relaly see ever get out of line except he called an obvious super strong c'r on teh turn w/ TPTK), who, after my comment all threw up their arms in disgust.

it was beautiful. another odd tasting strawberry julius please!... and a bud light.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would a check-raise have worked?

[/ QUOTE ]

Doubt it, but I think a bet on the turn would have worked. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif


BTW, I wasn't in this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

no way in hell is the bb folding Ts9s on a QJT7 board for a turn bet getting 4:1 w/ no rake and those outs with a player as bad as me willing to "value bet" a midde two pair hand when he hts his outs.

-Barron

[Senor Choppy]

SB anyone we'd know? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
SB anyone we'd know? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

heh.

-Barron

[JohnnyF]

Easy value bet. IMPL I E D ODDS!

[Clarkmeister]

I figured it out. It's all about taking everything 100% literally.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
and clark, thanks for putting up the singular worst play i made the entire night

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I wasn't ever going to mention that it was you. I was just relaying a funny story.

[Lawrence Ng]

This is indeed a funny story.

Lawrence.

[James282]

Hey Barron, I hope you are duly humiliated by both your play on this hand and your comments preceeding the showdown. You have made better value bets against me personally, and you think 2 pair HU is the best in history !?! You've seen better days, my friend /images/graemlins/smile.gif
-James

[Clarkmeister]

It was an all-time high stakes for him, so I think a little FPS leaked into him on this one.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
It was an all-time high stakes for him, so I think a little FPS leaked into him on this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt, I definitely suffer from that as well - but no true friend could let a hand like this go buy without some good shithousing.
-James

[roy_miami]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for putting up the singular worst play i made the entire night

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you must have played one hell of a game that night because I'm not seeing how this play is so bad. Preflop-good. Flop-good. Turn-I would have bet. River-Bet and fold to a raise, bet-call or check-call seems to be the only options you have.

How would you have played it differently now that you know the results?

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thanks for putting up the singular worst play i made the entire night

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you must have played one hell of a game that night because I'm not seeing how this play is so bad. Preflop-good. Flop-good. Turn-I would have bet. River-Bet and fold to a raise, bet-call or check-call seems to be the only options you have.

How would you have played it differently now that you know the results?

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn check is bad at best.
-James

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't see how this could be the best value bet in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Especially since it was obvious to the other 3 players at the table that his hand was no good.

BB had 9T and HHWG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's the turn bet by the BB?

b

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't see how this could be the best value bet in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Especially since it was obvious to the other 3 players at the table that his hand was no good.

BB had 9T and HHWG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's the turn bet by the BB?

b

[/ QUOTE ]

These are good players playing $150-300. What does the BB gain by betting into a preflop raising SB on a QJT board when the SB unexpectedly checks the turn?

[bernie]

Being that the flop gave absolutely no info since it was all bet/called in the dark, I think many more hands will call the turn bet than if the flop was bet/called normally.

What is the BB thinking that the sb thinks he could have as far as how they've played up to that point? The BB could be representing a wide range of hands here. The sb is inducing a bet here.

b

[Clarkmeister]

What possible good can happen for the BB if he bets. Seriously. No better hand is folding. He's behind a bunch of hands but has maybe lots of outs. There's just no mileage in betting here. In these games, good players take free cards when offered. This was a very good player.

[ QUOTE ]
The sb is inducing a bet here

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

[bernie]

Whiskey binger last night. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I misread the post and thought the BB flopped a bottom end str8. Sigh! This is the 2nd of only a few posts I've misread today. Not a good ratio.

Makes me reeaaal glad I didn't play today.

Yes, this is an easy check behind. Duh.

Sorry for those wasted 3 responses.

b

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
It was an all-time high stakes for him, so I think a little FPS leaked into him on this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

and i honestly did think he'd bet with something he could "have nothing to do but call" preflop and then smoke call the flop.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and clark, thanks for putting up the singular worst play i made the entire night

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I wasn't ever going to mention that it was you. I was just relaying a funny story.

[/ QUOTE ]

note the smiley face ( /images/graemlins/smirk.gif) after the comment ... and also note i really dont mind at all that yo uposted it or would have cared if you said it was me outright.

in any case, i've been thinking about it and looking back and it was indeed very funny...

-Barron

[James282]

This was 150 Barron? How'd you wind up for the session? Gimme a holla sometime even though you are now a Vegas big shot!
-James

[dansalmo]

If he said it after being called (instead of raised)then this is no big deal. Almost anthying that can only call is beat.