6-max, K4s from BB [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

sungod

06-04-2005, 08:18 PM

I have a hand that I'd like your comments on.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, MP raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Yeah, I know. This is probably more then questionable. Usually I dump this against a raise. Especially since MP is 27/9/0,9 through 100 hands. Though, I think I treated him as an unknown at the time because I was multitabling and not paying that much attention. I was also running very good and I tend to play a little looser when I do so. I guess many will disagree with that too.

Flop: (8 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG folds, MP calls, SB calls.

I get a little piece of the flop. I have bottom pair, backdoor flush draw and an overcard. I though MP would bet if I checked through, and I wouldn't really protect my hand by betting out against a preflop raiser. By check-raising I try to protect what's mine, and I trap SB and I get him to fold, and thanks for that. When MP only calls he can't be too happy about his hand, or he plans a turn check-raise. If he reraises I would most likely call and fold the turn UI. SB can have anything, he's a calling station.

Turn: (7 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB calls.

No flush for me. But I fire again as noone gave me any real resistance on the flop. I might as well have the best hand. If raised I would fold.

River: (10 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Didn't help me. I didn't expect a worse hand to call me if I bet so I checked. If SB suddenly came alive I would have to consider folding. If MP bet I probably would have called since there's a chance he would bluff.

Like it? No? I thought so. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

SteveL91

06-04-2005, 08:24 PM

With the amount of people in the hand, PF is fine, I think.

On the flop, I'm not thrilled with the C/R after the SB calls, but I'm not sure that calling is any better. If the PFR will dump UI overcards, then I like the C/R as you may be able to get it HU with the SB, though I don't know that this is likely. Given the size of the pot, and the fact that you do have something resembling a playable hand, I'd like to continue on.

Actually, I think you played the hand fairly well. An alternate line if you decide to play and continue after the flop is to call the flop and bet the turn if SB checks. You could also look to C/R.

tijean

06-04-2005, 08:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
noone gave me any real resistance on the flop. I might well have the best hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's that you have the best hand, I think it's that you're representing a much better hand than you have.

If you don't improve, or can't make them go away - and at 6-max, nobody with a 9 is going away, and a 5 will probably stick around too - I don't see you winning this.

I'd call the flop, but that's the last money I'm putting in this pot.

And I think PF is fine for 6-max.

MrWookie47

06-04-2005, 09:06 PM

Preflop is standard.

Given that you check/raised the flop, your turn and river play is correct. However, I don't think I like the check/raise here. SB already called one, so he's not going away. Without SB, I'd be more inclined to check/raise, but with him tagging along, I think I call and fold the turn UI unless the pot is big enough to see the river, also (too lazy to work it out).

benkath1

06-04-2005, 09:12 PM

I think i'd play it the same way.
I like your post and your thoughts through the hand. How can you think a hand through so much if you are multitabling? Were these your thoughts at the time or when you reviewed the hand? Just curious.

hicherbie

06-04-2005, 09:44 PM

i like it against pfr. it sort of sucks that mp1 came along for the ride...but since he seems like hes a quiet partner, your play seems good to me.

Transference

06-04-2005, 10:12 PM

Your preflop call is fine but it is not dependant on MPs pfr standards. Your calling because your getting 7 to 1 on your flush draw, never because you might have the best hand.

You cannot protect your hand on the flop. Even if you have the best hand it is vulnerable. The pot is too big, you dont have position, and MP isnt letting go of overcards until the river. If pfr was immediatly to your right you could bet into him hoping hed raise and you get it heads up, if hes to your left you could raise him to get HU. Not only do you not have these options but overcards will feel they are drawing live and youll never get rid of the flush draw.

So your faced with the alternative, can you bet for value because you might have the best hand? Given the above, that any kind of a draw is going nowhere, this is a much better proposition. I would tend to let MP bet the flop and donk bet a friendly turn card like the one you got. There is a reasonable chance that this will get you your free showdown on this board and like you said w/ ace high the only worse hand calling you down id be inclined to take it.

Duerig

06-04-2005, 10:31 PM

similar hand (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=micro&Number=2272542&Forum =,,,,,,,All_Forums,,,,,,,&Words=&Searchpage=6&Limi t=25&Main=2272526&Search=true&where=&Name=28671&da terange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype= &bodyprev=#Post2272542)

On this hand, with SB calling, I'm not sure that I like the check raise. You're just going to tie him to the pot.

Quercus

06-05-2005, 12:50 AM

I can't really see where a flop check-raise does much other than make it harder to get away from this marginal holding.

sungod

06-05-2005, 08:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I like your post and your thoughts through the hand. How can you think a hand through so much if you are multitabling? Were these your thoughts at the time or when you reviewed the hand? Just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question. When you have played for a while (I have only around 30k hands) many things became automatic. Here we have a preflop raiser, I'm oop, I got bottom pair, backdoor flush, overcard, in a raised pot. These are factors you don't have to think about but you see instantly, and I didn't exactly spend a whole lot of time thinking about what to do. But I've elaborated those thoughts later on, for the purpose of getting better answers and making my thoughts at the time clearer for the readers.

Also, this example is kind of similar to one in SSHE, except I'm oop here compared to that example, and have weaker bottom pair then the middle pair in that example if I remember correctly.

Anyways, thanks for the good answers as always. But if I called the flop, would it be terribly wrong to lead out on the turn?