A hand for discussion

[Jaran]

I thought I would post this hand because it is very contrary to ABC poker. I'm also posting it sans read on the villian. I thought it would be fun for y'all to think of a read that would cause me to play this hand this way against this particular villian.

-Jaran


Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, MP3 folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

[kapw7]

I can't find a single action that doesn't look bad in this hand.

[Jaran]

Exactly. Why would I do this? Assume I do have a reason for it. (cuz I do).

-Jaran

[shadow29]

If I were playing this is how it would go.

PF- call, call.
Flop- check/fold.

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]
Assume I do have a reason for it. (cuz I do).

[/ QUOTE ]

You're drunk?

You hate money?

Beats me chief.

[Isura]

Your action is only sensible against a total maniac who will slow down to any sign of aggression. Even then, I think the caldown is marginally profitable at best. Maniacs even have A3 once in a while.

[cold_cash]

I think if the CO is an over-aggresive spaz who is currently off his rocker you should either 3-bet pre-flop or raise the flop.

From the looks of it you made up your mind to showdown right after you saw your cards, which is fine, but if that's the route you're taking I think you need to find a way to get MP3 out of the mix.

I'm not sure I would do it in this spot unless the guy was a maniac of epic proportions. After all, there still aren't that many hands you're beating.

[VBM]

read: villain has raised every hand PF; or has some, known superstitious belief in 6Ts...?

[Fantam]

Jaran I know that you are a good player but you have lost me on this one.

Call the flop with an overcard and backdoor flush ok.

Call the turn with an overcard and gutshot ok.

Call the river with nothing /images/graemlins/confused.gif ?

I think I would have preferred bet the river or maybe even 3-bet it, although that seems a bit crazy.

I cant think of any read that made you play this way. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Ok I will read the rest of the posts now and wait for you to enlighten me.

[Jaran]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if the CO is an over-aggresive spaz who is currently off his rocker you should either 3-bet pre-flop or raise the flop.

From the looks of it you made up your mind to showdown right after you saw your cards, which is fine, but if that's the route you're taking I think you need to find a way to get MP3 out of the mix.

I'm not sure I would do it in this spot unless the guy was a maniac of epic proportions. After all, there still aren't that many hands you're beating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much right on. For the record, if MP3 had called the flop, I'm betting any turn card. I don't do this very often, but my read on CO was super solid.

-Jaran

[irishpint]

is it possible you're in your poker hell because you play hands this way?!

[tijean]

The only way I can see to justify this play is against someone who never folds - he plays 100% of his hands, and sees a showdown every hand - and only because MP3 didn't tag along.

[detruncate]

I could see playing this way against a full-on maniac with a hand you want to show down but don't think is strong enough to justify putting in 3 bets on any street. Perhaps also against someone who will fold anything you beat but 3-bet things that beat you -- you can't fold the turn with your gutshot + ace getting 9:1 or so after he 3-bets you.

[MrWookie47]

You are approximately a 3:2 dog on every street against a truly random hand. If this guy is a pure maniac, 100%/100%/infinity, your play is fine. Anything less than that, though, and the chances you're way behind go up significantly.

In general, fold the flop. Barring that, fold the turn. If you still haven't folded, fold the river.

[LazyRobot]

Jaran:

Curious to your motives now. I would not make this play on the flop personally especially with MP3s presence alone however you say you have a good reason. Anyway what were your thoughts here?

[Kevin K.]

It's just too fancy and not profitable. I'm guessing your read is that he plays any 2. You're roughly 3-2 against random hands preflop. Then you don't hit on any street. You fall further and further behind each street.

Good read, but it's -EV.

[DA MICRO MASTAH]

Jaran,
I'm going to assume you called the flop because of your backdoor draws, the turn because of your gutshot, and the river probably because "I was curious as to what cards my opponent held." Well I just want to make it known that I don't like it, no not one bit. Perhaps you have watched a few too many World Poker Tour final tables, but ace high doesn't amount to very much here in the micro limits.

It is play like THIS that eventually results in 100BB or larger downswings. Now maybe you are a rich yuppie to whom $100 means little, but at least have some respect for those of us who worked hard at Home Depot to EARN our bankrolls by not posting horribly misplayed hands like this and then playing them off as solid poker!

I guess I'll see you in hell. Poker hell.

[FlopMe]

Great gimmick account. bisonbison? You're hillarious, whoever you are.

[btspider]

i'm assuming a maniac.

i don't think i like it. if he's a maniac, then you should have tightened up PF. I think you need more pairing value.. e.g. A7s or similar to enter this pot. your 2 sidecard, if paired, only allows you to pass better Aces.. which we obvious don't need to fear too much.

now if he'll cap every street when you have a flush.. that's another story.

a maniac gives you odds to call on the turn with your 5.5-6'ish outs, so the only other issue is whether the flop call is an implied odds call or an intent to showdown call.. in which case would a raise be better?

[aron]

Am I the only one who would fold this PF?

-aron

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who would fold this PF?

-aron

[/ QUOTE ]

No (And I am very loose at 0.5/1)

[FlopMe]

I would play it if I thought there was a very good chance at this happening:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: FlopMe is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
FlopMe calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

If I look around and see that almost the whole table is green (VP$IP higher than 30%) I'll play any suited ace and any pocket pair from EP.

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to assume you called the flop because of your backdoor draws, the turn because of your gutshot, and the river probably because "I was curious as to what cards my opponent held."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll bet that's not why. In fact, I'll bet your reasoning behind every one of these is wrong.

Other than that, real nice post.