$100 NL 6 max Am I crazy?

[Lawrence Ng]

Very good $100 6 max SH game.

UTG is a super lag at 73/24/2.0 with 33 WtSD. Two other players are in the 50/25 range and the other two are TAGs.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO ($56.3)
Button ($51.9)
SB ($167.7)
BB ($170.2)
UTG ($130.95)
Hero ($48.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $2</font>, Hero calls $2, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, SB (poster) calls $1.50, BB calls $1.

Flop: ($12) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $20</font>.



Lawrence

[wtfsvi]

I would reraise preflop. But raising the flop is good too I think. I think you must raise either the flop (when it falls like this) or preflop. Not crazy.

[BobboFitos]

6 way flop pot i dont like this that much but it's raise or fold. you cant call here, if UTG is that laggy he could be betting so many things so basically you just dont want to run into a big hand behind you. you've blown out anyones' odds behind you so they wont be calling on a draw unless it'a a mega draw.

this is a case, lawrence, where you hand is probably good but if the pot gets big it wont be.

[fimbulwinter]

against a lag like that 3betting preflop makes subsequent decisions much easier.

fim

[BobboFitos]

i dont agree, it makes it much harder. lags will call a reraise with most hands, so... on the flop its

easy for you to fold best hand
easy for you to lose to a better hand when you think he's just trying to push you out

putting alot of money in with a person who's willing to gamble before the flop when you have a marginal hand yourself does not make things easier

[fimbulwinter]

since he's a lag, he won't often have a hand big enough to stack him when you do flop a set,

since he's a lag you're dominating a large portion of his hand range here, plus threebetting freezes him up and gets you control of the size of the pot.

fim

[soah]

An addition to what you wrote, just calling lets others come in and when you don't flop good, it's easy to just fold and let someone else pick off the maniac. You don't lose much, and you don't have to worry about folding the best hand. And if you do flop good (a set, hopefully), then there are other people in the pot that can flop second-best hands to pay you off with. This seems much better than trying to isolate an aggressive player and trying to make eights hold up unimproved.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
since he's a lag, he won't often have a hand big enough to stack him when you do flop a set,

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, but if he does have a hand big enough to stack if he's truly that laggy he'll put in another raise killing our odds

and, 88 can win unimproved, but if you 3bet, it puts alot of money into a situation where you can win unimproved, but your banking more on your flop bet equity then current hand strength (and against a LAG who perhaps makes too loose postflop calls too, and here im speculating, that is v bad)

i think pf was played fine, raise the flop

[ QUOTE ]
since he's a lag you're dominating a large portion of his hand range here, plus threebetting freezes him up and gets you control of the size of the pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

very true, people behind could wake up with a hand, but just because you may currently have best hand, your equity advantage is still not that much and forces a big pot / tough decisiosn where alot greater edge can be extracted. honestly, i'd like to isolate LAGs w/ position, but not with 88

[fimbulwinter]

i think you guys are missing the point here, there are many, many more advantages to threebetting etc (buys you AK88) etc.

I'll tell you this, calling and trying to flop a set here is exactly what a lag wants you to do. i know because i'm a lag. you don't know what the action behind you will be and hands bigger than 8's are not easy to come by. As a lag myself, especially at a 6max table, if you aren't willing to put a leash on someone with the 7th best starting hand when he's raising 25% of hands you're going to have a very hard time making any real profit.

read sponger's post in MH. like he said, one of the big faults of twoplustwo is the fact that people are always playing scared. if you can't handle a raised pot with position, control of the pot and the best hand, you are in dire straits indeed.

fim

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll tell you this, calling and trying to flop a set here is exactly what a lag wants you to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fim, I understand your line of argument, but in a limped (minraise is basically limped) I can win without a set. so you dont just check/fold unfavorable flops. that said..

[ QUOTE ]
if you aren't willing to put a leash on someone with the 7th best starting hand when he's raising 25% of hands you're going to have a very hard time making any real profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very wrong. Just because I may not push a small pf edge does not mean I will have a "very hard time making any real profit." Who says I dont flop a set and he bluffs into me flop turn and river? With increasing bet sizes thats alot more money then taking his 2 dollars, or possibly 8 or whatever it is when he (sometimes) folds to my flop bet.

[ QUOTE ]
one of the big faults of twoplustwo is the fact that people are always playing scared.

[/ QUOTE ]

AHHHH! IM NOT SAYING LAYING DOWN A SET CAUSE HE PUSHES ON A AK8 BOARD! Being "scared" by just calling with 88 isn't actually scared poker... I really believe it's the superior play.

[ QUOTE ]
if you can't handle a raised pot with position, control of the pot and the best hand, you are in dire straits indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then let position work for us, we'll play a slightly raised pot with much more left in our stacks to play around postflop. That allows me to exercise my position even better.

[TheWorstPlayer]

This is an interesting thread, but I really think that everyone (despite being 'name' posters /images/graemlins/grin.gif) is missing a crucial detail. Look at OP's stack. For christ's sake, top up, man! Re-raising here is bad simply because OP is too short stacked. If I were forced to sit down with OP's stack in this game, I take his line. I will be PCed by any bet if I re-raise preflop, so I flat call. On the flop, I have good equity against UTG's hand range and I am just hoping that this flop didn't hit anyone behind me. If it did, oh well. I'll just rebuy (to the max).

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an interesting thread, but I really think that everyone (despite being 'name' posters ) is missing a crucial detail. Look at OP's stack. For christ's sake, top up, man! Re-raising here is bad simply because OP is too short stacked. If I were forced to sit down with OP's stack in this game, I take his line. I will be PCed by any bet if I re-raise preflop, so I flat call. On the flop, I have good equity against UTG's hand range and I am just hoping that this flop didn't hit anyone behind me. If it did, oh well. I'll just rebuy (to the max).

[/ QUOTE ]

That's how I went about thinking it. There's a very good chance I have the best hand so I played it aggressively on the flop.

I love to multi-table and I love to play NL. But put the two together and I get a super headache after 1 hour. I just can't focus as well. So I decided to play short stack, alleviate a lot of the heavy decision making needed on the turn/river. I give up a lot of EV, but in return it makes multi-tabling a lot easier. This loss in EV is compensated by the extra 2 tables I have on, and I have found variance has also been much kinder which is a godsend.

Lawrence

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
against a lag like that 3betting preflop makes subsequent decisions much easier.

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, in retrospect I think a 3-bet would have been a better choice.

But in this game, everyone was targetting the LAG and my 3 bet could easily be called by two more people (not uncommon), thus making it very difficult to play hand post-flop if an unfavorable hit.

Lawrence

[TheWorstPlayer]

I am obviously not in any place to tell you your business, but just from my own observations from your posting on 2p2 it seems like you have the poker skills, intelligence, and bankroll to successfully multi-table NL100 with a bit of practice. I think that you could just as easily play 4 tables with full buy-ins as you can play 4 tables with short buy-ins, with a bit more practice. But if you feel more comfortable, I won't disagree too strongly. In any case, in this hand, I think everyone's right that you will make more money by re-raising preflop, but you are right that you can't do that with a short stack. Put the two together and it is more profitable to play with a full stack. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif