Dealing with Loss

[Jay]

For the last four days I've played my usaul hold'em game, except after after several hours each day I've walked away down. For the past four days I've lost 10 big bets, 10 big bets, 15 big bets and 20 big bets respectively (a total of 55 big bets). Admittingly, my last session after getting no cards and then catching a piece of the flop and being beat by a player who should have not even played pre-flop during one of his runner-runner plays, I loosened up a bit and was on tilt. That cost me and I decided to walk away before I gave up more of my money.

My question is, how do folks deal with loss? I understand that winning every session is impossible, however lately, I seem to not make anything. I've been evaluating my play over and over and made some adjustments, but damn, its been especially hard lately.

Jay

[Ulysses]

It happens. It's not fun. You'll likely have losing streaks of more than 55BB if you keep playing.

It's good that you're analyzing your play and looking for leaks. I think that's the most important thing. It's also good that you can recognize when you're on tilt before it gets too bad. Besides that, I do two things.

1) If I feel my attitude is bad and I'm not playing aggressive poker, I take a couple of days off to clear my mind. I find it really easy to play too tentatively when in the midst of a bad streak.

2) I look for some plays on the margin that are +EV but very high variance and eliminate them from my playbook until I get back on track.

[Herb N.]

You fail to mention how long your sessions are.To lose 10 B.B. twice a 15 &20 also.These are rather small loses.It sounds like your afraid to give yourself a chance to win by quiting too soon.If you are putting in a 6-8hr sessions,and or you could be playing too tight.I know one 10/20 player who is proud of the fact he will never lose more than $300.The trouble is I never see him win.You should be mentaly ready to be down 25 big bets,and still expect to win 25 B.B. for that session.Also four sessions aint diddly.Now after 10-15,or20 sessions your proubly like most a losing player.Now IS a good time for some soul serching,and by making this post you have taken a big step.Good Luck! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Ray Zee]

its best you walk away when loser as you admit to steaming. no steaming players can stay in money. all they can do is keep their losses down to what they can afford. if you cant control you emotions then you cant win at poker. sorry but that is how it is. so get a grip on yourself and learn all you can, so you can see what is supposed to transpire in a game. so you wont be surprised and steam when someone hits a few hands on you. good luck.

[bernie]

but ill also add...

you may need to rebuild your confidence a little...so put a couple small wins under your belt to get the 'winning' feeling back a little...

say if you go up 10BB and you get that feeling you may put it back in, quit right there...your game is affected the moment you think that...

once you do this a bit, youll get some confidence back and will be better able to expand your playing time...

playing extended sessions takes time to develop. many dont mention that. youll feel all the different emotions and swings during those sessions...and if youre not prepared for them, they will affect you...

as Zee said, you shouldnt be suprised when someone turns over a huge dog that beats you, you sould actually welcome it...and this is easier said than done.

i do laugh a little inside when i see a guy bemoaning a bad beat at the table as if it's his first one he's ever had...

you can learn to find the humor in those moments too....but it takes time to develop...and no book can prepare you for that, you have to experience it

hang in there...take a break...the fact youre analyzing your game puts you ahead of most of the players youll face. so look at that as silver lining...

b

[PEN]

Many times I feel better after a losing session than a winning one. When I can account for my losses by realizing my mistakes I feel good because it will help my long run EV. That's much better than having a winning session and being clueless how you got there. Sometimes I have a winning session by making mistakes I am aware of. That is worse for my psych than a losing session.

[Jay]

I appreciate very much, everyone's advice. It's comforting to hear the information shared from experience and all of the suggestions. It is not typical of me to go on tilt or steam because of another person's bad play (that's poker and their loss), however after a series of them, I began to wonder what I may have been doing wrong. After doing some analysis, I did spot some close calls that maybe I shouldn't have made (they were marginal). But for the most part I think it was some fluctuation more than anything - being a "serious" recreational player I haven't encountered such a negative fluctuation before, so it threw me. Where's that Zen book when you need it - lol.

Again, I appreciate the comments and look forward to hitting the tables again after a few days off and turning that swing back up.

J.

[Al Schoonmaker]

Jay,

You've gotten some excellent advice from the other people, but I might be able to add a little.

I wrote a series of articles for Poker Digest on this subject. If you (or anyone else) send me your email address I will send them to you. Make sure you tell me whether you have unzipping software. If so, I can attach all to one email. If not, I'll send them separately.

My email address is alanschoonmaker@hotmail.com.

Regards,

Al

[cero_z]

Jay,
For what it's worth, Zen and the Art of Poker completely transformed my game and the quality of my experience at the table. It seems like your reference to it was sarcastic, and that was my attitude the first time I came across it. But later, I picked it up in the midst of an extended cold streak, The details of which are long. Basically, I'd been struggling for months in games much weaker than those I'd beaten over hundreds of hours, and even my wins felt like pulling teeth. Every game was a struggle! Zen woke me up to the fact that I had "retreated into a black & white game", the sort of ultra-conservative mode Sklansky has reccomended for taking a shot with a small bankroll. My problem was that I wasn't skilled enough to stay safe in the inevitable gray areas. It used quotes from Sun Tzu (a samurai who's afraid to face death is easy to conquer, etc.) to illustrate the futility of eliminating "gambles" in poker. I had placed so much importance on winning and preserving a tiny bankroll that I'd grown afraid of losing. I resolved that I would take my small bankroll into the only game in town (a VERY good game), and play like it wasn't small; if I lost it, I would be out of action for a while, but at least I would've played as well as I knew how. I happened to have good luck just then, booked several good wins in a row, and have since built my roll to a point where I'm in (almost) no danger of ever going broke in the game. True, the book did nothing to improve my luck, but it did make me receptive enough to it to benefit from good cards. I've since read the entire book many times, and lots of principles which seemed obvious and trite upon first glance have proven truly valuable to me. I wish you the same good fortune that I've had, whether it's a book or a conversation or just some honest self-evaluation that gets you there. Keep working on your game and yourself, and you'll be able to weather these inevitable streaks.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

It's a great book. If a player can internalize its lessons, tilt will virtually disappear.

[anatta]

You just need to get used to it, that all. The first time I lost several sessions in a row, it was tough. I would hit the ATM machine in the morning, lose my money at the tables, lather, rinse, repeat. I know I tilted away some good money toward the end of those sessions, too.

Its good you are using the losses to look for leaks in your game. That's fantastic. Dont just be a victim and blame bad luck.

The Colts lost a playoff game 41-0 today. They would be going home if they lost 41-40 in OT. It makes no difference in football. But like Sklansky says, it makes all the difference in Poker. A great player might have lost with your cards too, but how much they lose is the key to their having a winning month. When you start your comeback, your gonna think, "gee if I would have not tilted away all those silly bets, I'd be way up right now". So to sum up, you will get used to it, stop steaming, work on your game, no problems.