A quick little turn thingy (to be cont.) [Archive]

jason_t

06-03-2005, 08:07 PM

No reads.

Two posters in the MP3 and CO respectively.

I open limp in MP2 with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif. The posters check, the Button calls, the SB completes and the BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, I bet, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.5 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, I check, MP3 bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, I....

Call or raise?

toss

06-03-2005, 08:18 PM

Making the field pay another bet would be great, but having MP3 3-bet would suck. I still raise though.

Entity

06-03-2005, 08:19 PM

Call. A 7 is pretty clean and so is a /images/graemlins/club.gif, but a Jack isn't all that great. You've got a reasonably big draw but would rather not lose any callers.

Rob

rmarotti

06-03-2005, 08:36 PM

The flop bet is dangerous as you dont want to pay a lot to see the next card and getting raised by a 9 would suck. then again, having the flop check through would kind of suck too. I like a turn raise for value, though the risk of a 3bet shutting out the field might swing me to a call.

WillMagic

06-03-2005, 08:38 PM

I don't particularly like your open-limp as your position is going to suck.

I think your flop bet is lame.

I think you would be crazy to do anything but call the turn.

Will

ihardlyknowher

06-03-2005, 08:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but having MP3 3-bet would suck

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if everyone else came along.

einbert

06-03-2005, 08:41 PM

Why the flop bet? You don't have much equity with just a gutshot + BDFD and I don't think you're taking this pot down more than like 4% or 5% of the time (maybe less?).

Emmitt2222

06-03-2005, 08:42 PM

How did you get the title nit when you play hands like this? I dont like the open limp at all, I think its a poor choice. I don't really like the flop bet. Although the SB is the only one to put money in voluntarily so they all may have junk, your position just sucks and getting raising, especailly with no callers in between would be really bad. I think the turn is an easy call because you want everyone to stick around for the river and then if villian bets again you can trap lots of people for bets when you hit.

toss

06-03-2005, 08:46 PM

I don't think the open limp is bad with 2 posters. Raising would be kinda LAG.

SippinSoma

06-03-2005, 08:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but having MP3 3-bet would suck

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if everyone else came along.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sir, what awfully amazing table selection you have.

jason_t

06-03-2005, 08:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How did you get the title nit when you play hands like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I have vociferously stated time and time again, I'm not a nit.

Entity

06-03-2005, 08:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How did you get the title nit when you play hands like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I have vociferously stated time and time again, I'm not a nit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your avatar begs to differ.

ckessel

06-03-2005, 08:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I open limp in MP2 with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.

Flop: (6 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, I bet, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand the bet. You've a gutshot and backdoor flush, so it's not worth paying 2 bets to see the turn if someone raises, which there's a good chance of with 3 people still to act. What am I missing?

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: (5.5 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, I check, MP3 bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, I....
Call or raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that many callers you can raise for value. Open ended straight flush draw. The straight is tainted, but just the flush alone nearly gives you a value raise opportunity.

In the heat of the moment I probably wouldn't have even thought about it, but it seems like you're going to win more than 20% here, so a value raise seems like a good play.

SmileyEH

06-03-2005, 08:53 PM

I'd call preflop if I was feeling sharp. I don't understand the flop bet - I think its highly unlikely you pick the pot up and you don't have that much equity. I think calling the turn is best here. Your straight and flush draws are well hidden so I like calling and going for the checkraise on the river if they hit. Calling here not only means you won't be 3bet, and by raising I think some of the other players drop.

-SmileyEH

gaming_mouse

06-03-2005, 09:19 PM

My first instinct was to call, but you have easily enough outs to pump the draw. Even discounting for the chance of a 3-bet, you still have a raise. One, it's not that likely. Two, you only need one other caller to make it almost an even bet...

Raise.

rmarotti

06-03-2005, 09:24 PM

Doh! I hadn't realized how few callers we needed. As I've said before: I suck at math. I vote for raise with no qualms now. Thanks, gm.

jason_t

06-03-2005, 09:55 PM

No reads.

Two posters in the MP3 and CO respectively.

I open limp in MP2 with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif. The posters check, the Button calls, the SB completes and the BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, I bet, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.5 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, I check, MP3 bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, I call.

I missed the turn raise as I was playing this hand and didn't realize the possibility of it until I was discussing it with others.

River: (10.5 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets, I....

Call for overcalls or raise?

rmarotti

06-03-2005, 09:58 PM

Overcalls

Entity

06-03-2005, 10:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Overcalls

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure. This might be a raise. Straights aren't folding for two in general but may not raise, and SB may 3-bet a straight. I don't know that most one pair hands can call one bet, and two pair hands might make a crying call (even though they should fold). I also highly doubt that any two pair hands are out there, given the lack of action on the flop/turn.

Someone is going to have to give an awfully convincing argument for overcalling here given the board's texture. I'm reasonably sure raising is significantly better here.

Rob

S_Perry

06-03-2005, 10:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Overcalls

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure. This might be a raise. Straights aren't folding for two in general but may not raise, and SB may 3-bet a straight. I don't know that most one pair hands can call, two pair hands might make a crying call (even though they should fold).

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

gaming_mouse

06-03-2005, 10:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Overcalls

[/ QUOTE ]

chesspain

06-03-2005, 10:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
then again, having the flop check through would kind of suck too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

rmarotti

06-03-2005, 10:25 PM

n/m I am dumb.

CallMeIshmael

06-03-2005, 10:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Overcalls

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure. This might be a raise. Straights aren't folding for two in general but may not raise, and SB may 3-bet a straight. I don't know that most one pair hands can call one bet, and two pair hands might make a crying call (even though they should fold). I also highly doubt that any two pair hands are out there, given the lack of action on the flop/turn.

Someone is going to have to give an awfully convincing argument for overcalling here given the board's texture. I'm reasonably sure raising is significantly better here.

Not Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

jason_t

06-03-2005, 10:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Overcalls

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure. This might be a raise. Straights aren't folding for two in general but may not raise, and SB may 3-bet a straight. I don't know that most one pair hands can call one bet, and two pair hands might make a crying call (even though they should fold). I also highly doubt that any two pair hands are out there, given the lack of action on the flop/turn.

Someone is going to have to give an awfully convincing argument for overcalling here given the board's texture. I'm reasonably sure raising is significantly better here.

Not Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay Overcall Camp, let's hear it.