Anyone find a fold on this flop? Party 2000 NL

[ShortySaurus]

This is my first hand at the table........comments on my line as well pls

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($2000)
UTG ($2002)
UTG+1 ($2114)
UTG+2 ($1937)
MP1 ($4859)
MP2 ($1975)
MP3 ($1206)
CO ($1960)
Button ($942.8)
SB ($1952)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $10.
UTG calls $20, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls $20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $180</font>, UTG calls $180, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB folds.

Flop: ($460) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $300</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $600</font>, Hero calls $300.

Turn: ($1660) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: ($1660) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $375</font>, Hero calls $375.

Final Pot: $2410

[Blackjack]

Woah... 9x the BB raise? Doesn't that seem like being a reallllyyyy large preflop raise?

I like the turn check, but I would fire out about $400 bet on the river. I think you're ahead to a hand like AhT or KhT.

Blackjack

[iceman5]

I say you lost to TT, 33 or 22.

[Popinjay]

[ QUOTE ]
Woah... 9x the BB raise? Doesn't that seem like being a reallllyyyy large preflop raise?

I like the turn check, but I would fire out about $400 bet on the river. I think you're ahead to a hand like AhT or KhT.

Blackjack

[/ QUOTE ]

If you fire out $400 then you give AT or KT in the hands of a thinking player the perfect opportunity to steal the pot from you. 1/4 pot bet on the river is by no means a sign of strength, and given the preflop action it is pretty easy to tell what you have. A good raise by villain on a $400 river lead will cause you to fold and sometimes incorrectly.

[not_da_nizzles]

Nice first hand to be dealt. I play it exactly the same ... aside from the 9xBB PFR.

If you're going to raise AA huge like that then make it more than %10 of your stack to keep the set monkeys away. Of course, unless you're doing this once per orbit only an idiot would call you (thankfully idiots abound aplenty at my stakes).

mj

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Woah... 9x the BB raise? Doesn't that seem like being a reallllyyyy large preflop raise?

I like the turn check, but I would fire out about $400 bet on the river. I think you're ahead to a hand like AhT or KhT.

Blackjack

[/ QUOTE ]

i think checkcalling this river is the only line to take.

[amoeba]

how large would the river bet have to be for you to check fold?

[Big_Jim]

Although I would very rarely do it, particularly if I put you on AA-KK (as I would put at 80% for some players, with that PF raise) ....
I think a lot of players will definately call here and try to trap when the pair hits on the turn if they have the boat, now that they are pretty positive that they have you drawing to two outs, and might put you on the flush draw with AKs.

On the other hand, what hands is he limping UTG with and cold calling a 18BB raise before the flop? Unless he's a donk, which is likely, considering his weak minraise on the flop, I'm putting villian on almost all pocket pairs (Maybe JJ-22). And maybe AK or AQ. (Flush draw took a free card?)

If villian likes to trap, your chances of being beat are higher... but who makes a minraise on that flop?

He gave you huge odds to call on the river. I put him on a busted flush draw, maybe just an overpair (but who gives a free river card?) , or a full house, or and make a crying call

[Yeti]

[ QUOTE ]
If villian likes to trap, your chances of being beat are higher... but who makes a minraise on that flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

A set, generally. It's pretty common.

[9cao]

Based on pre-flop and flop action I could have believed that Villain has KK and went for a limp-reraise UTG and bailed out when you bet 9xBB. When I see a bet like that out of the BB for some reason I always assume that person does not want to see a flop with QQ or JJ, maybe he thought the same thing.

However, based on the fact he didn't care about the 3 hearts on the turn you have to put a very high probabilty on TT. I think check-call anything under $500 (3-1) the river is the way to go. I assume you lost to Villain with TT, who made a very bad preflop call.

[ggbman]

Do we really think villian puts hero on a hnad worse then QQ after the preflop raise? So then what is he raising the flop with?

[edge]

If UTG smoothcalls the flop, do you fire again on a blank turn? Do you fire again on the 2h turn? I think the big preflop raise makes it very difficult to play this hand unless you flop an A or a 3-flush.

[Dr. Strangelove]

No, it's against my religion.

[ShortySaurus]

he had TT

[Dr. Strangelove]

Man he played it bad.

[thabadguy]

If a not-so-good tightie raises to 9xBB in a really deep stack game and you put him pretty much on AA or KK, would it not be better to call me a low pp(22-88) rather than a higher one such as TT-QQ, or maybe sc's. I dont think against a tightie who raises 9xbb preflop i would call with JJ or TT, because the implied odds maybe a little diminished, as it is much easier to put some1 on TT calling a raise rather than say 33.
I think it owuld be ideal to call with a low pp and pray for a set on a completely ragflop, cuz I think you're pretty much stacking him then.
Thoughts?

[Dr. Strangelove]

I am absolutely in agreement with this. Though I'm still probably folding preflop for 9% of my stack with 55, because to stack AA I have to not only hit a set, but flop a set on a non scary board.

When reasonable players call that big of a raise preflop I give them credit for a hand with more than just set value, jj-AA probably not AK, so I'm not going to be willing to get stacked on a 5jq flop.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I'm pretty sure you don't want a ragged flop because then he has to know you have a made hand. If it is a coordinated board, he can suspect a semi-bluff and therefore has to call more liberally.

[Big_Jim]

You don't think hero would make this play with AKs and the flush draw?