SmileyEH
06-03-2005, 05:49 PM
Something I see a lot of in posts these days is 2+2ers describing a player as a donk/fish/moron, and then using this read to justify poor plays later on under the assumption that the said fish is a moron so his bets/calls/raises mean nothing.
I remember one hand Pokerbob posted (not to rag on you bob) where the button open limped while bob was in the SB. He immediately assumed the button was a moron and bet bottom pair all the way to the river because quote, "his IQ is 14." Now, if one actually thought about what this bad player had for a range of hands it would be clear that betting the whole way was incorrect (at least I think it was). More importantly however, I think bob's mistake was that he became so annoyed with the stupid fish, he felt the pot should be his. I'm sure we've all at times been angry at some donk for doing bonehead stuff, but that doesn't mean we should just give up on understanding how a losing player plays and how to exploit that.
What really got me thinking however was this post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2545398&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) by QTip. The replies like "he likes you and giving you money," or doesn't know if he has the nuts or not, I think are grossly incorrect for the vast majority of losing small stakes players (I'm thinking from .5/1 all the way up to 15/30). Even bad players think about the game, they try to do their best, and make smart plays. Unfortunately, most of them simply do not have the raw intellect, the knowledge, analytical abilities, or simply discipline to think about the game well enough to win. Whenever I hear losing or most self-taught players discuss a hand I'm consistently surprised both how much they think about poker, but how incorrectly. The precise and analytical way hands are discussed on 2+2 is a far cry from how most players think about the game. Hearing stuff like "well I put him on AK because he raised preflop" is jarring for this stay at home internet poker pro. Without the grounding of books and the tactical framework they provide most of us would be stumbling in the dark like all the fish out there.
But, and this is a big but. That most certainly does not mean these donks are sitting in front of their computers making random plays. They are thinking about the game and doing their best-however flawed that may be. To maximize our profits we must give them credit for this and not justify bad plays because of bad players. "Getting inside the mind of a donk", as QTip says is essential to playing winning poker-anything else is a money wasting copout. So next time a donator makes some bizarre play, I hope you give my thoughts some consideration.
-SmileyEH
I remember one hand Pokerbob posted (not to rag on you bob) where the button open limped while bob was in the SB. He immediately assumed the button was a moron and bet bottom pair all the way to the river because quote, "his IQ is 14." Now, if one actually thought about what this bad player had for a range of hands it would be clear that betting the whole way was incorrect (at least I think it was). More importantly however, I think bob's mistake was that he became so annoyed with the stupid fish, he felt the pot should be his. I'm sure we've all at times been angry at some donk for doing bonehead stuff, but that doesn't mean we should just give up on understanding how a losing player plays and how to exploit that.
What really got me thinking however was this post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2545398&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) by QTip. The replies like "he likes you and giving you money," or doesn't know if he has the nuts or not, I think are grossly incorrect for the vast majority of losing small stakes players (I'm thinking from .5/1 all the way up to 15/30). Even bad players think about the game, they try to do their best, and make smart plays. Unfortunately, most of them simply do not have the raw intellect, the knowledge, analytical abilities, or simply discipline to think about the game well enough to win. Whenever I hear losing or most self-taught players discuss a hand I'm consistently surprised both how much they think about poker, but how incorrectly. The precise and analytical way hands are discussed on 2+2 is a far cry from how most players think about the game. Hearing stuff like "well I put him on AK because he raised preflop" is jarring for this stay at home internet poker pro. Without the grounding of books and the tactical framework they provide most of us would be stumbling in the dark like all the fish out there.
But, and this is a big but. That most certainly does not mean these donks are sitting in front of their computers making random plays. They are thinking about the game and doing their best-however flawed that may be. To maximize our profits we must give them credit for this and not justify bad plays because of bad players. "Getting inside the mind of a donk", as QTip says is essential to playing winning poker-anything else is a money wasting copout. So next time a donator makes some bizarre play, I hope you give my thoughts some consideration.
-SmileyEH