Why do i suck so much at live play?

[bholdr]

...and not all live play, i normally crush my home games, but i can't seem to get a handle on public cardroom poker. I've played maybe a total of 80-100 hours of 4/8 and 8/16 hold 'em and am down almost a thousand. yikes!

The money doesn't really bother me, I make that and more monthly playing up to 3/6 online, but being able to beat online hold 'em (where, theroeticly, the games are tougher that a normal casino) and not being able to beat live 4/8 is really drivng me nuts.

small sample size? i'd like to think that's it, but i definitly have not been playing my best at the cardrooms. i've had one extremly cold streak that cost me about $300 that was all the cards, but the other times that i've lost, i'm quite sure that for some reason, i was off my game. I have about as many winning sessions as losers, but when i win i profit like $100 and when i lose it's like $250...

I do not drink while playing (sometimes one beer) i pay attention and think i'm decent at reading players. i am fairly confident that i am not giving info away. is there something about B&M play that may be throwing me off, something that i'm mising? do i just need to relax and re-read SSHE?

help! TYIA.

[TStoneMBD]

100 hours of live play is like 3000 hands. to endure a 75BB downswing over that period of hands is somewhat insignificant.

[d10]

Insignificant sample size.

[InkyWretch]

I think you're just going through an adjustment phase, a statistical anomaly.

I know some guys at the local casino who have experienced the same sort of thing. The main thing they talked about was the speed of live play vs. online. They're used to multi-tables, seeing hundreds and hundreds of hands per hour. Then they're suddenly seeing 30 or fewer an hour and they can't stand the slower pace.

I'm curious — Why do you think online is theoretically tougher than a normal B&M game?

[Bodhi]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious — Why do you think online is theoretically tougher than a normal B&M game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where have you been? Online play is a lot tighter and the opposition is simply more skilled.

[InkyWretch]

Most of my experience is at a live table. I'm just now treading into the Internet games.

IMO, the percentage of skilled players seems to be about the same. The Internet just has a volume advantage.

[Bodhi]

It depends a lot on where you play. Party is full of fish and everyone knows that. Try Absolute Poker or Poker Room and you'll notice an increase in the ratio of tough players.

[eric5148]

Try not to shout BOOYAH! whenever you get dealt a big hand.

Seriously, you might want to talk with your home game friends to see if they notice any tells you might give away, because us internet players never have to work on that.

But probably, it's just small sample size. And you naturally exaggerate short term results live as opposed to online because it takes so much longer to play the same number of hands.

[RiverDood]

Several other possibilities:

1. The rake is bigger. B&M sites have much bigger overhead than online -- and the players have to pay for it. In a loose game, where you may have to win the same chips three or four times before you've really won them for good, this can really add up.

2. You're impatient and trying to do too much. Online, you can fold 8 hands in a row and only 8 minutes have past. In a cardroom, 15 minutes of your life has vanished. You came to play and you want action. All of a sudden K7s starts looking good. Predictably bad things ensue.

3. You're trying too hard to teach idiots a lesson. You raise with AK and get called by some guy who can barely read the board. The flop is K73r and you determine to push him off his TP/bad kicker. Raise, re-raise, all the way to the river. He turns over 73. Despicable -- but even clods can hold the right cards every now and then.

I'd be surprised at a 4/8 game if anyone is reading you especially well. At 8/16, anything is possible. But first I'd ask yourself if you're really playing your A game.

[SittingBull]

item#2.
SittingBull

[Mason Hellmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
The flop is K73r and you determine to push him off his TP/bad kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[kreaglin]

I recommend playing only short handed casino play for you. My guess is that the reason you lose in casinos is that you are against lots of weaker players who draw/chase. You do well at home because you play against people likely at or near your level. Many solid players get screwed against a group of leisure players. Unfortunately it's hard to find casino short handed play where you would dominate.

[moomoocow]

I think one of the reasons online's tougher than B&M is the speed at which fishies lose $$$ (and hence the lower proportion of fish). In a B&M game, fewer hands = higher chance fishies will be ahead after an average weekend trip - online, the chance a complete fish is ahead after a full day (let alone a weekend) of playing is much lower. It's the same reason why B&M (or online) Omaha/8 games are generally only filled with people who know what they are doing - fishies lose their money FAST and can't even delude themselves into thinking they're better than the field - in B&M Texas Hold'em - they can!

[Hellmouth]

I find B+M harder to play than online but not because the competition is too tough. I know that the competition at B+M is much weaker when comparing similar limits.

1) I get uncomfortable with the higer $ bets. I play .5/$1 online. 3/6 seems like astronomical bets at the B+M.
2) When I am uncomfortable, I get nervous and have a hard time sticking to may game plan.
3) When I wait patiently for cards that are worth playing, because I have waited proportinately longer, I get to wedded to them. Even when I know I am beaten, I cant resist betting out and calling a raise on the river if I see AA in my hand.

I hope that with more time and experience I will overcome these problems.

Greg

[hurlyburly]

Have you been successful at reading the textures of the games? Probably all loose-passive or loose-aggressive, but loose no matter what, right?

Do you make any adjustments at all considering that the other players are there to gamble it up and are perfectly willing to drop $200 playing every other hand and only know that "odds" are "not evens"?

Without all the information my first guess would be that you're folding too often preflop, and trying to jam too hard when you do play a hand instead of releasing without improving.

My problem is the exact opposite. I don't lose live, but I can't build a roll online to move up and can't find enough time to play live. Irritating as f***.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]
Several other possibilities:

1. The rake is bigger. B&M sites have much bigger overhead than online -- and the players have to pay for it. In a loose game, where you may have to win the same chips three or four times before you've really won them for good, this can really add up.

2. You're impatient and trying to do too much. Online, you can fold 8 hands in a row and only 8 minutes have past. In a cardroom, 15 minutes of your life has vanished. You came to play and you want action. All of a sudden K7s starts looking good. Predictably bad things ensue.

3. You're trying too hard to teach idiots a lesson. You raise with AK and get called by some guy who can barely read the board. The flop is K73r and you determine to push him off his TP/bad kicker. Raise, re-raise, all the way to the river. He turns over 73. Despicable -- but even clods can hold the right cards every now and then.

I'd be surprised at a 4/8 game if anyone is reading you especially well. At 8/16, anything is possible. But first I'd ask yourself if you're really playing your A game.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very good post - I think these three reasons and/or sample size pretty much sum it up.

With regard to the rake, some casinos charge a "session" fee (ex $5 per half hour) - this isn't good for the TAG players who can easily go an hour without seeing a flop.

I've played B&M five times in my life - twice limit and 3 times NL and have only left the tables up once.

And I can say with absolute certainty, each and every time, the players were HORRIBLE.

But, variance is variance.

***Edited to say that I used to play at a live 2/5 NL game at a local card club that I routinely crushed. (Forgot about that). So my poor live play results have been restricted to those damn casinos.