Why Religion Is Immoral

[Mark Heide]

This is just my opinion and maybe it is shared by others. I was brought up by my parents and forced to go to a Lutheran Church. When I was young, I believed all this stuff until I became old enough to start questioning the establishment. I think that the Lutheran Church or any other religious establishment has been invented by man to control other men. This is the only purpose of it.

The other day I watched a film called Haxan. It was made in 1922. It is about witches and shows just how silly religion and the people that believe it can be.

Anyway there is no scientific or mathematical proof that any god exists.

Finally, this recent news story disturbed me, because it is using religion as the excuse, again, to do something that has irreversable consequences. Here's the link:

http://chicago.sisna.com/dynamicportalfiles/newsspotlight.asp?newsid=24619&selectionid=3#top

All comments welcome.

Mark

[IrishHand]

You're not saying religion is immoral - you're saying it's manipulative. Far as I can tell, that's pretty obvious. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[thebroker]

will be on the hands of religious men. If you were to concretely prove the bible to be right OR wrong, we would all perish. I believe most people need rules to live by and don't want to accept that in the end they are food for worms. Nothing more. This is why they allow themselves to manipulated.

[IrishHand]

I get your point about people wanting direction and wanting to think there's more to life than life, but "If you were to concretely prove the bible to be right OR wrong, we would all perish."? Please. Humans, for the most part, display an amazing capacity to adapt to new realities. Prove the Bible right? ok - now all the non-Christians (and most Christians) can actually spend some time reading this book and incorporate it into their lives. Prove the Bible is little more than a semi-transparent attempt to manipulate people (based on that need for structure you alluded to), then you would have a larger adjustment (given the large number of Christians in western society, at least) but people would find something new to believe in. Good things happen, bad things happen, big or small, humans will adjust.

My religious beliefs are open for debate, but the foundations of my life are myself and my family. If, for example, I were to lose my father tomorrow, that would be the most devastating thing I can imagine. You know what? I wouldn't perish. There is no event I'm aware of that would cause me or the rest of the world to "perish." (Obviously, me getting killed or the world being obliterated would do the trick, but it's pretty clear you're referring to some scientific or literary discovery.)

[thebroker]

I'm talking about the end of the world. What do think the Islamic radicals would do if the bible were proven to be right. I'm pretty sure the the christian radicals would rub in their face and stir some [censored] up. Just my thoughts. By the way I agree with you about family and I also would be leveled by the loss of my father.

[whiskeytown]

I guess the question is...does that make you

a) atheist - I.E. God doesn't exist
b) agnostic - I don't know if God exists one way or another
c) cynical - God exists, and he's cool, but the religious institutions that have sprung up to point to him are money grubbing manuliaptive bastards (for the most part...I don't think you could let that generalization apply to EVERYONE)

please advise....

RB

[Ray Zee]

what one do you think that doesnt point to? name one religous institution that doesnt mostly benefit those at the top just like major corporations. i am asking because i dont know much about religon as i dont care to follow it.

[brad]

those shakers or whatever around turn of century who didnt believe in sex or something so theres none left /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

heh.

but seriously maybe the omish (ahmish?) would qualify i think. but special case obviously

[Mark Heide]

IrishHand,

Would you consider the way it manipulates to be immoral?

Good Luck

Mark

[Mark Heide]

Ray,

Here's something we can agree about. Most religions are like corporations, or even dictatorships (which most corporations are if you have ever worked for one).

Look at the Catholic church. It has it's own country and government. The Pope is about the same as a King. One of the few differences is people are manipulated pyscologically to financially support the church. Governments forceably take your money.

Another problem is there are too many different religions just like governments. None of them can agree much about anything and they declare needless wars against each other.

Religion is basically for the people at the top, like the Pope, to live in luxery. Just like governments. What religion has going for itself is it preys on your fears. Fear of the unknown. But, what's so bad about ceasing to exist? If you are worried about immortality, think about it scientifically. You are the vessel of previous generations of genes, and you will pass this on to your children. This is your immortality.

Enough said, time to play poker.

Good Luck

Mark

[IrishHand]

Manipulation is not immoral, at least not in the sense of it being right or wrong per se. The activities of a church or of religions can certainly discussed, but their mere existence, to the extent that you want to characterize it as manipulative, isn't "immoral." That doesn't really answer your question though.

It's worth noting that morality is often dependent on religion so this discussion could in a bit of a lurch. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Assuming, however, that we use morality as some sense of "right or wrong" emanating from the community (in this case, the US community), then I don't think you can say that the way religion generally manipulates (providing rules and guidance by which people can live their lives in an orderly fashion) is immoral.

This isn't to say that I agree with it, just that it's not immoral - meaning "wrong". Telling people to lead good, positive, healthy lives in order to earn their way into heaven (or some variant on that theme) is probably a good thing.