Someone's gotta be fired on the Yanks

[shadyridr]

Either Cashman or Stottlemyre. Actually, in a prefect world it would be Steinbrenner but that's not gonna happen. This team has become a laughing stock. Some great moves this offseason: signing one year wonders Pavano & Wright, trading proven young stud who had 1 rough half due to shoulder tightness in Vazquez for a 41 year old (who we then extended for 3 years), also trading in that deal a young catcher and Brad Halsey who has an ERA under 3.00, letting Leiber go. Our best pitcher is Chien Ming-Wang for God sakes.

[hoopsie44]

What input did Stottlemyre have on any of these moves ? And did you feel the same way about the Johnson trade when it was completed back in December ?

[shadyridr]

[ QUOTE ]
What input did Stottlemyre have on any of these moves ? And did you feel the same way about the Johnson trade when it was completed back in December ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't on this board yet so I guess you'll just have to trust me but I told everyone I liked Vazquez and didnt want to deal him. If they couldve gotten Johnson another way I wouldnt have minded but I know that was not possible. I did not like the deal at all.

[bisonbison]

How about firing Womack, Williams and Giambi? That'd be a start.

Oh, wait, no better options in the farm system, no prospects to trade, huge bloated contracts.

Have fun!

[hoopsie44]

I agree with you. Anytime you trade a 28 year old pitcher for a 41 year old plus throw in 2 prospects it is a dangerous move. But it cracks me up when I hear all these media types rip the Yankees for the trade and back when the trade was made the general consensus was that the Johnson trade would assure the Yanks the World Series this year. Speaking of bad moves, I'd rather have Miguel Cairo instead of Tony Womack and letting Jon Leiber go was a mistake.

[shadyridr]

[ QUOTE ]
How about firing Womack, Williams and Giambi? That'd be a start.

Oh, wait, no better options in the farm system, no prospects to trade, huge bloated contracts.

Have fun!

[/ QUOTE ]

Womack misplayed an easy line drive yesterday in LF. Womack should be moved back to 2B, Williams to LF, and Cano back to the minors. I like Cano but he's a rookie and needs some more developmental time.

[shadyridr]

[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of bad moves, I'd rather have Miguel Cairo instead of Tony Womack

[/ QUOTE ]

When they did this move I hated it and wouldve agreed with you but I think now it was the right move. Womack adds a dimension you just cant get with Cairo in speed.

[bd8802]

and when they go on another little mini-winning streak (by sweeping the devil rays and tigers) everyone will jump back on the Yankee band-wagon. It is really sickening.

YANKEES IS TH3 SUCK / AW3SOME (circle one depending on week)

But watching the Royals sweep them was [censored] awesome.

[Voltron87]

Obviously these last 5 games have not been fun. I still like our chances, but the series against the Royals has been a huge setback.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How about firing Womack, Williams and Giambi? That'd be a start.

Oh, wait, no better options in the farm system, no prospects to trade, huge bloated contracts.

Have fun!

[/ QUOTE ]

Womack misplayed an easy line drive yesterday in LF. Womack should be moved back to 2B, Williams to LF, and Cano back to the minors. I like Cano but he's a rookie and needs some more developmental time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Womack should not be starting over Cano.

[Pocket Trips]

Get ready for some bad baseball from the yankees after this year. They can and probably will recover to at least make the playoffs this year, but just like in the early 80's Steinbrenner just couldn't handle merely having a "competitive" team he wanted to dominate the competition. You would think he had learned his lesson when he destroyed the yankees of the late 80's by trading away a shitoad of great prospects for aging superstars that never really gelled as a team (sound familiar). For the next 10 years or so we will watch as other teams succeed with our prosects that we traded for guys who will be retired in 3 years. There was not a single move this offseason that didn't have Steinbrenner all over it. Unfortunately for him Cashman will pay the price even though now he is only the GM in title only

[-Skeme-]

Can Steinbrenner just [censored] move the Yankees?

[Pocket Trips]

[ QUOTE ]
Can Steinbrenner just [censored] move the Yankees?

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't get to Steinbrenner till the 3rd year of law school

[TStoneMBD]

after seeing the kc sweep, my hopes have diminished quite a bit. i think that could very well have been the nail in the coffin.

[andyfox]

The Yankees have averaged only seven hits a game over the past six games. Don't know what firing Mel will do. One would think perhaps Mattingly might be in jeopardy.

It's just not a very good team. It happens. They've made the post-season every year since 1995.

[jakethebake]

Costanza

[wh1t3bread]

[ QUOTE ]
Womack adds a dimension you just cant get with Cairo in speed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know Womack is fast, but is he really that much faster or aggressive on the basepaths than Cairo?

The stats say: "not really":

Womack: 16SB (188 AB, .310 OBP)
Cairo: 7SB (88 AB, .333 OBP)

Cairo > Womack.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of bad moves, I'd rather have Miguel Cairo instead of Tony Womack

[/ QUOTE ]

When they did this move I hated it and wouldve agreed with you but I think now it was the right move. Womack adds a dimension you just cant get with Cairo in speed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cairo adds a dimension you just can't get with Womack, in talent.

[shadyridr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of bad moves, I'd rather have Miguel Cairo instead of Tony Womack

[/ QUOTE ]

When they did this move I hated it and wouldve agreed with you but I think now it was the right move. Womack adds a dimension you just cant get with Cairo in speed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cairo adds a dimension you just can't get with Womack, in talent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Cairo's been a backup his whole career, Womack has been a starter. I think Womack clearly has more talent and the thing most Yanks fans liked about Cairo is his intangibles (good clutch hitter, plays hard, etc).

[bisonbison]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/womacto01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cairomi01.shtml

Cairo's better and younger.

[shadyridr]

[ QUOTE ]
The Yankees have averaged only seven hits a game over the past six games. Don't know what firing Mel will do. One would think perhaps Mattingly might be in jeopardy.

It's just not a very good team. It happens. They've made the post-season every year since 1995.

[/ QUOTE ]

They're just in a hitting slump. Every team goes through them. Before this stretch I believe they were 1st in RS and among the leaders in most offensive categories. Its their pitching that's gonna suck all year.

[siccjay]

Neither are really worth a [censored].

You would think someone at the Yanks could realize that last year was a miracle year for Womack. Even then, for a fast guy his OBP really sucks. His career OBP isn't even .320.

[wdcbooks]

The Yankees are in trouble and it's been a long time in the making. I believe the problem this time can't be fixed by the Steinbrenner method of hiring and firing. The telling moment was last season when they couldn't get Randy Johnson for the stretch run because they had no prospects and no farm system to tempt the D-Backs.

There is a limit to what they can spend, and the amount of money being spent on useless contracts is building. They are old, injury prone, and lack any semblance of team chemistry. All that being said, they are still one of the best teams in the game with their roster of purchased talent. That will fade unless they constantly restock with free agents.

I think we are entering a period of several years of .500 baseball for the Yankees while they clear the contracts of some of their worst mistakes, groom some home grown talent, and get drastically younger at every position. Steinbrenner's money creates the illusion that everything is fine, but this pattern of mismanagement just isn't sustainable.

[Shajen]

And I'll be loving every single minute of that "rebuilding" period. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[tbach24]

The only way to make the Yankees better is to get a new person who signs/fires players. Like an actual GM, not like Cashman.

[hoopsie44]

You would also have to have a new owner to achieve this.

[bisonbison]

Neither are really worth a [censored].

We're both right!

[shadyridr]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/womacto01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/cairomi01.shtml

Cairo's better and younger.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gifI wont disagree with the younger part but according to those links their career percentages are VERY similar.

[Dead]

You don't know what you're talking about. Halsey is overrated. He is pitching in an easy division in the National League. If he came back to NY right now, his ERA would be over 5.

I do agree with you that we should not have let Vazquez go. Trading for Randy Johnson was definitely a stupid idea, when Vazquez was only 28 and had proven that he could pitch in NY the first half of the season. God I wish we had him back. I wish we had Lieber and a healthy El Duque back as well.

But true Yankees fans will persevere. We've been through much worse than this: 1982-1995, for example. I just hope that this is not a repeat of 1965.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
after seeing the kc sweep, my hopes have diminished quite a bit. i think that could very well have been the nail in the coffin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never knew you were a Yankee fan.

[Voltron87]

I really don't think we're in as much trouble as everyone thinks. I think all the Yankee fans can get off the ledge.

[Dead]

Neither do I.

The team is just going through a rough patch right now. This team is too good to not make the playoffs. And I STILL think we will win the AL East. It starts tonight. Mussina needs to give us a great game, and I think he will.

Our huge winning streak was started by a CG shutout(Mussina) and ended by a CG shutout(Pavano). Pavano and Mussina are our two aces now(Randy is more like the #3). They need to step it up. It all comes back to pitching, although the bats need to do better as well.

One thing I don't get is why Joe keeps switching the F*CKING lineup. Just keep it the same Joe. Keep Giambi out of it, and keep Bernie in it.

Here is the best lineup:

Jeter - SS
Womack - LF
Sheffield - RF
Matsui - CF
A-Rod - 3B
Posada - C
Tino - 1B
Williams - DH
Cano- 2B

Let's stick with this one 6 days out of the week.

[Voltron87]

pm me the link to your last mussina avatar pic, im going to switch to it in solidarity.

[Dead]

Done.

You should copy the location I put up too. Or at least a Yankee location.

[Voltron87]

excellent.

[Voltron87]

gotta change mine to match your capitals

[Voltron87]

awesome.

bwhwhwahahaa, its going to give people who blocked you fits when I post.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
awesome.

bwhwhwahahaa, its going to give people who blocked you fits when I post.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Yes yes it will.

[ethan]

Adblock seems to have handled things pretty smoothly.

[Dead]

Good job Barney.

[shadyridr]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't know what you're talking about. Halsey is overrated. He is pitching in an easy division in the National League. If he came back to NY right now, his ERA would be over 5.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to hurt your post with actual facts but SD and LA are 2nd and 3rd in the NL in runs scored and Colorado is the worst pitchers park in the majors.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You don't know what you're talking about. Halsey is overrated. He is pitching in an easy division in the National League. If he came back to NY right now, his ERA would be over 5.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to hurt your post with actual facts but SD and LA are 2nd and 3rd in the NL in runs scored and Colorado is the worst pitchers park in the majors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Subjective opinion + name calling > Factual information

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
Neither do I.

The team is just going through a rough patch right now. This team is too good to not make the playoffs. And I STILL think we will win the AL East. It starts tonight. Mussina needs to give us a great game, and I think he will.

Our huge winning streak was started by a CG shutout(Mussina) and ended by a CG shutout(Pavano). Pavano and Mussina are our two aces now(Randy is more like the #3). They need to step it up. It all comes back to pitching, although the bats need to do better as well.

One thing I don't get is why Joe keeps switching the F*CKING lineup. Just keep it the same Joe. Keep Giambi out of it, and keep Bernie in it.

Here is the best lineup:

Jeter - SS
Womack - LF
Sheffield - RF
Matsui - CF
A-Rod - 3B
Posada - C
Tino - 1B
Williams - DH
Cano- 2B

Let's stick with this one 6 days out of the week.

[/ QUOTE ]

You probably feel a little silly penciling the Yankees in for a 6 game winning streak when it was actually a 6 game losing streak. Emil Brown and Terrence Long = Yankee Killers.
-James

[andyfox]

Jeter - SS
Womack - LF
Sheffield - RF
Matsui - CF
A-Rod - 3B
Posada - C
Tino - 1B
Williams - DH
Cano- 2B

Pretty depressing for Yankee fans. Hard to win with a left fielder, first baseman, DH, and second baseman who can't hit. Basically speaking, if Jeter's not getting on base, and he hasn't been the last week, they can't score very many runs. And if Mussina and Pavano are the stoppers, even more depressing. Because Mussina's best days are over and Pavano is just an average pitcher.

[Jack of Arcades]

Why would you want Womack hitting 2nd?

SS Jeter
3B A-Rod
RF Gary
C Jorge
CF Matsui
1B Tino
LF Bernie
DH Giambi
2B Cano

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i find it funny that the very same people that were drooling all over the yankees when they were "the hottest team in baseball" are the same people saying they're in major trouble. this team is exactly the same team as the team that won all of those games earlier. and oh yeah, the season is only 1/3 of the way done!

baseball is a lot like poker. there'll be a lot of up and downs but in the long run we should see what we expected to see. its pretty clear however that the yankees are not as good as everyone expected, but to say that they're awful and the season is over is an overstatement as well.

also for those who say tony wolmack should be starting over caro and that he has certain intangibles are misguided. i even read something that went as far as to say wolmack has been a career starter while caro has been a backup to prove wolmack's worth. that's utter nonsense. wolmack is a career out producer and the only reason why he has been starting is because general managers and coaches aren't nearly as smart as they should be.

oh yeah another thing. please seomone for the love of god show me these so-called great prospects the yankees have traded away. it's my understanding their farm system has always sucked and haven't produced a legit player since Jeter (and Nick Johnson if you want to go that route). the yankees have always spent far too much of their resources in aquiring free agents and trades to even properly develop their farm system.

[Jack of Arcades]

Well, Brad Halsey has an ERA under 3.

[sublime]

bwhwhwahahaa, its going to give people who blocked you fits when I post.

it just blocks text

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
and oh yeah, the season is only 1/3 of the way done!
...
oh yeah another thing. please seomone for the love of god show me these so-called great prospects the yankees have traded away. it's my understanding their farm system has always sucked and haven't produced a legit player since Jeter (and Nick Johnson if you want to go that route). the yankees have always spent far too much of their resources in aquiring free agents and trades to even properly develop their farm system.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't really watch baseball, do you?

Womack
Cano

Those from the Yankees farm system, you may have heard of them: Andy Petitte, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, Alfonso Soriano

In 2000, BA ranked the Yankees farm system #1.
In 2005, BA rank: #24

[Jack of Arcades]

Also, they traded away Brian Buchanan, Eric Milton, and Cristian Guzman in the Knoblauch trade. They aren't doing so hot _this_ year, but they've had good seasons.

They traded Tony Armas for Jim Mecir.

Chris Singleton for a nobody that never made the majors.

Mike Lowell for warm bodies.

Zach Day in the David Justice trade.

Wily Mo Pena in the Henson v2 trade.

[DontRaisePlz]

Those players are way too old now. They were prospects from 10-12 years ago, things have changed now.

But here are some newer examples:
Nick Johnson, Yhency Brazoban, Wily Mo Pena, D'Angelo Jimenez

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
Those players are way too old now. They were prospects from 10-12 years ago, things have changed now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the statement was that the NYY farm system has always sucked...which we know not to be true.

The mark of all the Yankees' recent championships - homegrown talent.

[DontRaisePlz]

It was my reading from "since Jeter" that he he meant all the prospects from the past 10 years. And the last 10 years has been pretty weak.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Those from the Yankees farm system, you may have heard of them: Andy Petitte, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, Alfonso Soriano

[/ QUOTE ]

if you read my comment i said "nobody good since Jeter". all the guys you mentioned except for Soriano came up before or at the same time as Jeter. the past 10 years have been pretty weak.