Stars $11 rebuy final table hand, reasonable, or awful?

[lacky]

I play lots of sng's, and have been playing lots of MTT's the last few weeks. I've had a fair amount of success, but botched my share also. Usually I know when I botch a hand, but I'm just not sure what to make of this one? So, reasonable play, or hopelessly wreckless?

Steve

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20000 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t337307)
CO (t187040)
Button (t195664)
SB (t249983)
Hero (t194965)
UTG (t292280)
UTG+1 (t180300)
MP1 (t607961)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t40000</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t40000, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t20000.

Flop: (t138000) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t60000</font>, Hero calls t60000, MP2 folds.

Turn: (t258000) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t93965 (All-In)</font>, Button calls t93965.

River: (t445930) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t414930

[Skjonne]

I would fold preflop.

On the flop, I'd either push or fold, probably push since I'm tied for last and need good things to happen for me to get in the big money (6th or 8th doesn't make much difference. Top 3 is where we wanna be)

[lacky]

I usually call with a fairly wide range of hands from the BB to a min raise, just because with ante's etc the odds are good to see the flop. Here I was getting 6 to 1 to see the flop. Is that the wrong way to look at the situation?

[Skjonne]

I dunno /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I don't use pot odds that much late in a tourney because the blinds are so big that I often can't afford to see flops even if I get pot odds.

Your hand is a good example of that. Maybe you have odds to call both pre- and postflop but nevertheless it costs you 40% of your stack.

But hey, what do I know? Let's hear what the big boys say /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[whiskeytown]

I highly dislike the cold call of the raise preflop and the call post flop

having said that, you hit the best possible draw you could probably hope for, and you just check/call again -

if you've decided to go broke on a flush draw - get all in as soon as it's there - weaker hands will just let it go - and you're going to go broke anyways if you're all in before the last card, so why not try to drive them out and get the blinds -

if you hit - you're fine -

RB

[lostinthought]

I'm not a expert in these, but -

1) I think your preflop call is normal
2) I like pushing or check-raising all in on the FLOP, if you are going to commit your chips here - sure it's gambling, but if so, get the extra value of folding equity

[Kronon]

Late in tournament, I never ever limp. Either I think I have the best and push, or I fold. Remember that these tournaments are very different from TV tournaments like WPT and WSOP, where even the shortest stack might gave 15BB. As a short stack, its raise or fold, limping is never correct.

In this pot I would fold preflop with that awful hand, but if I had limped and saw that flop I would immediately move all-in.

Limping and then calling with that hand is very weak play in my opinion.

[Benal]

I'd push the flop. You have zero folding equity on the turn with your line.

[TheDrone]

At a final table where you have a 10x stack, calling a min raise with a sooted J is no good. You can't afford to be bleeding off chips on longshots at this point, even with those pot odds. That said, push or fold the flop.

[durron597]

Read dependant whether you want to call preflop. You have to decide if these are opponents you can push off a hand.

On the flop, you must push (because if you weren't willing to push this flop, you should have folded to begin with).

[Slick14170]

This is a completely awful play. Calling with jack six? ur basically in a situation where u wait for the right hand and push and fold everything else. And since u decided to call u must push on flop but he would probably call that anyways however you had two draws at flush.

[psyduck]

Just check/push on the flop. A high PP will lay down to the ace out there, and you have good odds vs. an ace that flopped top pair. The preflop call is a little dicey.

[Benal]

[ QUOTE ]
Just check/push on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

That's almost no different than his line of check/calling flop, pushing the turn. He needs to open push that flop to get max folding equity.

[TheTimeIsUp]

Just fold PF. It isn't a sin since it only costs you a bb more, I promise.

[lacky]

thanks for all the input. my conclusions I guess.

1) I didn’t have enough chips to call and speculate preflop. Makes sense, as I was hitting the under 10x BB point where it is push or fold. If I had 15x or more I still like calling the min raise to see a flop. If I'm way off here, please let me know.

2) Yep, I agree I should have pushed the flop and not messed around. Failing that, I pushed the turn because the straight card was a scare card, and also gave me a open ended straight draw as well as the flush draw. But again, I was trying to play the hand out when I didn't have enough chips.

I think I was just tired enough that I didn’t make the connection that even though I had 200,000 chips it was really no different than an sng with 1000 chips and a 100 bb, and actually less with the ante's. Hard to get used to the idea I'm short stacked with 200k /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'm at 168% ROI after 146 MTT's, with a gain of $20,500, so It is encouraging enough to keep at them, but sometimes I feel like an idiot, and it is a little hard to get used to all the comments from the rail. (why would I really want to know the opinion on a guy with nothing better to do that watch a $11 rebuy he's not playing in?)

I guess the pressure points when I'm not sure what to do is probably why MTT's interest me so much right now. After thousands of sng's it's all kind of routine.

Steve

[Blackjack]

I hate the flop call.. and the call preflop - Especially at the final table with only 9 bbs.

[Skjonne]

[ QUOTE ]
.........and it is a little hard to get used to all the comments from the rail. (why would I really want to know the opinion on a guy with nothing better to do that watch a $11 rebuy he's not playing in?)......

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I've wondered that my self sometimes. It's truly amazing how many nice people there is. Wanting to share their deep thoughts on an $10 tourney that they (again) left hours ago.