2 Hands = No Clue

[Festus22]

Been dabbling in the Party 15/30 game when a table looks good. I still struggle with the best line for these hands.

Hand 1
MP3 had open raised the previous hand with A-3s. No read on the button.

I post in the CO and am dealt A /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Folded to MP3 who raises, I 3-bet, button caps, blinds fold, MP3 and I call.

Flop [A /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif]. MP3 bets.


Hand 2
J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif in the CO. UTG raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, I call, both blinds call. 6 to the flop for 6 BB's.

Flop [K /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif]. Blinds check, UTG checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls. Raise or call?

I just called, SB folded, BB called, UTG called. 5 to the turn for 8.5 BB.

Turn [K /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif] 10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif giving me 2 pair. BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, MP2 raises. Action?

Thanks!

[The Truth]

raise hand 1. MP3 could have ace anything, and the buttong capping could easily have KK, QQ, 1010 or even another AQ.

hand 2

Since you are just stepping up and learning I would fold this preflop. Alot of value from the call here comes from outplaying your opponents postflop, you dont have good enough feel yet.
So you should fold preflop, raise the flop, Fold the turn.

Edit: Had pot odds messed up.

[imashyboi]

Hand 1:

FLOP: Any reads on the button or MP3? You could be ahead against MP3 but the button might have a big pair preflop. I don't know what to do with flop either since there are several draws to beat you if your not beaten yet. The only hands I can see button having by capping preflop is AA-99, AK/AKs. Since MP3 is semi-loose, he's likely to have the flush or straight draw, or Ax rag. I'm probably going to raise the flop in hopes that CO folds a better holding. If he cold-calls I am convinced that I am beat, probably check/folding the turn. THOUGHTS?

Hand 2:

FLOP: Since you were the last to act I'll raise in this position. Your raising here because if your position and because you already made a mid pair and you have two backdoor flush and straight draw.

TURN: Its real close, your getting enough odds to chase the 4 solid outs for your full house but you won't know if a reraise will happen from the players who checked. If you think that a reraise will not happen because the players who checked is passive then the call is OK. I just hate cold-calling here because the T /images/graemlins/heart.gif came and that makes straight and flush draws on the board.

[barry.egan]

[ QUOTE ]
Since you are just stepping up and learning I would fold this preflop. Alot of value from the call here comes from outplaying your opponents postflop, you dont have good enough feel yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heed this advice. Having to ask the questions about raising the flop and the action on the turn, this is a hand that you're probably better off mucking and analyzing how you WOULD have played it. This hand picks up more than it's fair share in lots of situations, but you definitely need the post-flop lines to be your best.

As for these hands...
Play hand 1 fast.
Raise hand two on the flop, fold the turn.

[vulture]

1 raise; can there be a better flop?

2 fold; probably beaten at the moment; you need a J or T if not already against a set or better two pair and beaten if the river brings it. odds against you about 11:1 and pot odds don't justify a call.

[vulture]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Als antwoord op:</font><hr />
THOUGHTS?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please come and sit at my table ;-)

[imashyboi]

I think I made a small error on Hand 1. I think instead of folding the TURN if button cold-calls, the better play would be to fire out again. Preflop, he could have a big pair even AK. If he doesn't show any aggression postflop I'll consider my hand to be good and play it standard.

Any comments what to do if button 3-bets the flop after you c/raised MP3? I'm considering a fold here, my Q could set someone up for a redraw. I don't have much outs either since the flush draw is on the board.

[molawn2mo]

Festus...

Have read the "advice" given by various respondents here and will not directly make criticisms thereupon.

IMHO, each of these hands is quite complicated. To say that these hands are basic and simplistic reflects a lack of depth in the analyst.


Hand 1 I think I favor a raise given the read that MP3 is PF aggro. Use his aggro to make button commit. Button, if he continues, has 2 spades, an A or a set. Button calling is dangerous, more dangerous than a 3 bet and a 3 bet might shake out MP3. Tough hand.

Hand 2 is a very easy PF call. I like the flop call... in this potentially enormous pot you have enough fire power to continue, I think. On the turn, my initial reaction is you are drawing to 3-3.5 outs, at best, and with the possibility of being stuck in a raising war I think a fold is the prudent course. Sometimes I'm weak tight.

[jogger08152]

1. Raise. You're probably ahead and it's a decent-sized pot. If you get reraised by the button, call down or stop-and-go. If you check a non-spade turn and he checks behind, check a non-spade river to try and snap off a bluff.
2. Fold. You're getting 5.25-to-1 on an 11-to-1 draw that isn't the nuts even if you hit it. This is a routine laydown in a protected pot.

[kurosh]

I like calling on the flop for the first hand. I gotta go but I'll post my reasons later. Do you guys really think calling is that bad?

[poker1O1]

[ QUOTE ]
1 raise; can there be a better flop?

2 fold; probably beaten at the moment; you need a J or T if not already against a set or better two pair and beaten if the river brings it. odds against you about 11:1 and pot odds don't justify a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

[mmcd]

I might call in hand 1 and try to backraise the button. I think there's at least a decent chance if he has KK/QQ, etc. he might raise in attempt to see a free river/get to cheap showdown.

[vulture]

Why just quote me?

[TBag]

[ QUOTE ]
I like calling on the flop for the first hand. I gotta go but I'll post my reasons later. Do you guys really think calling is that bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was actually leaning towards calling this flop too. My reasoning was that I would call, see if button was going to raise, and see if the EP was going to 3-bet, which I can get away from very very cheaply. If it wasn't raised on the flop, I would call if bet into and bet if checked to on any further streets.

I hate getting over aggressive post flop with a hand like AQo after a 3-way cap.

[nummerfire]

I agree that the preflop call in hand 2 is very easy and I do not think you have to play expertly after the flop to make the call profitable.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
I like calling on the flop for the first hand. I gotta go but I'll post my reasons later. Do you guys really think calling is that bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think calling is clearly the best option.

[sfer]

I think hand 2 needs to get the flop raised.

[hockey1]

Both are interesting.

Hand 1: Although tricky, I think calling is substantially the best play here. Maybe a raise if you have the button, but not stuck in the middle like you are. MP3 could have a weaker A or AK or AJ or JJ or 88 -- you just don't know. And button could easily have JJ-AA or AK as well. So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not all that confident you're ahead. At the same time, if you ARE ahead, then you're WAY ahead and there's little danger associated with giving a free card. So, call. And don't be too afraid to fold if there's a lot of action on the turn.

Hand 2: Preflop call is a no-brainer. Flop is close between a raise and a call, but I think a raise is better -- it may buy you a free card on the turn and it'll get you info on your opponents' hands. That turn card is ugly. Nice play by MP2 here with his 2 pair or made straight, since it puts you in a really tough position with the blinds and MP1 still left to act behind you (and charges those flush draws the max). Your hand is too weak to continue with that board. You're probably up against a bigger 2 pair, a made straight, or even flush (with at MOST 4 outs, which might not even be outs at all), and even if you are ahead, you're facing a ton of redraws.

[teddyFBI]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that the preflop call in hand 2 is very easy and I do not think you have to play expertly after the flop to make the call profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Several ppl have said this is an easy preflop call...i'd fold JTs to an UTG raise (even with 2 callers in front) 10 times out of 10...anyone else agree, or want to argue why it's an "easy" call??

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
Why just quote me?

[/ QUOTE ]

[vulture]

lol

[Festus22]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Hand 1: I called MP3's bet, the button raised, MP3 called. Now I really felt stuck. Was the button making a play with KK, QQ or worse? I called closing the action.

Turn was the 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP3 bets. UGH! I called again, button raised, MP3 called, I folded. Could I have gotton away anywhere else?

Button had J-J, MP3 had A-10.


Hand 2: I folded to the turn raise. MP2 had Q-8o for the turned straight and it held up. Still amazes me what some will cold call a PF raise with.