.25/.50 and below, worth playing?

[Biloxi]

Is it even worth the time of playin 25/50cent or lower tables? (and I dont mean for income,just practice)
or are they so loose players get chased by half the table each hand?

[istewart]

Well, it's beatable, if that is what you are asking. Very beatable.

Plus, it's not as maniacal as some people make it sound. At least, PokerStars isn't. Few notches below Party $.5/1 in terms of opponent suckiness.

[celiboy]

I can only tell you my experience. I skipped .25/.5 entirely and made the jump to .5/1.00 directly on Absolute. With the bonuses they have, you basically will break even playing -5bb/100 poker. If you play tight/aggressive you should break even at least and profit from the bonuses.

[trainslayer]

I sucked for the first year I played. I now play exclusively .25/.50 at stars. ~17k hands since 1st of year at ~ 5.5 bb/100. I haven't got any experience at the other limits since then but I'd say the play is comparable - some real maniacs, some juicy fishes and some real decent to damn good players. I think it is well worth the time.

[ClaytonN]

I'd recommend starting out at either .05-.10 for a total newbie to Hold'Em.

If you're a 2+2'er though you can probably get started at .25-.50 and grind it out.

Definitely worth playing if you want to learn.

[aK13]

.1/.2 is a good start. I wouldn't do .02/.04, as people like me LAG it up for fun sometimes (25BB/100 over 450 hands, BAM!).

[iNsChris]

There great lol, Yes you do have chasers but theres not many times at these limits you won't have the odds to chase a flush draw etc.

Heres my bloger on this 0.05/.10 limit - http://ragstorichs.blogspot.com/

They are beatable, TAG style play can give some varience due to the "Chasers" rivering you etc but thats poker for you.

Generally most players dont know Odds/Implied odds/Odds to improve but they know "I need one card to get a straight" and will chase it.

Preflop raises are rare, Few good players dotted about.

i play at Victor Chandler though, Not stars/Paradise.

Good luck.

[trainslayer]

[ QUOTE ]
not many times at these limits you won't have the odds to chase a flush draw etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

i got lost, did u?

[iNsChris]

Lol no, I mean basically... Most people are getting 4:1 Post flop, On the turn, and for the river so they will chase.

Gutshots - Alot tend to chase these too, But they give us money so its great.

0.05/.10 are amusing /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd recommend starting out at either .05-.10 for a total newbie to Hold'Em.

If you're a 2+2'er though you can probably get started at .25-.50 and grind it out.

Definitely worth playing if you want to learn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally.

It may sound like childs play...but when u are just starting out in this game, u know nothing. As someone who started in october, and now does this for a living, its pretty mindblowing the stuff u just are not aware of starting out...I started on pokerstars with 50 bucks. And went on an up and down roller coaster...blew everything I earned and had .95 cents left in the account. I went elsewhere (doylesroom to earn points for SS2 way back in November) read 2+2, the books, started posting...reading the archives...and got pretty good.

Either way, I fully reccomend starting out at the penny tables. They are easily beatable, just be prepared for days of extreme suckouts...more so than any other limit u will play. Most days are good though, dont be discouraged.

as a side note, two months ago I went back to PS and built that .95 cents up to about 256 so far (at .25/.50 limit right now). Playing off and on when I can, in between playing 5/10 and 15/30. Going to build up another BR, get up to 15/30 on that site.

you will save a ton of money learning at the micros. It will be very worthwhile to do.

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it even worth the time of playin 25/50cent or lower tables? (and I dont mean for income,just practice)
or are they so loose players get chased by half the table each hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, yes. I think starting with like $10 at somewhere like Paradise at .05/.1 (go ahead and shortroll yourself here) and working it up to $150 and being able to play at .25/.5 is a great exercise that will really help. Other people like to move up much, much faster but I took a month and a half at one point to do this (playing SNGs for "real money") and I think it really helped me to learn limit.

[Hellmouth]

I plugged a lot of leaks at .25/.50 while clearing the Paradise "Granny" bonus. I was barely breaking even for a while. I think that if I had been playing higher limits I would have been loosing significant money for the lessons that I got for free by playing lower limits.

greg

[iNsChris]

edited: Ignore me then /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

If i have $10 i'm playing .02/.04 untill i'm up to $20 - $30 then going over to 0.05/.10 for a LOOONNNGGG ride before moving up to .25/.50 (As i'm currently doing).

0.05/.10 are profitable, Good practice, And great for filling in your leaks that would potential be costly later on.

You also can change playing styles, Maybe try LAG it up for a few hands and lose maybe $1 but you learn and whatver you like.

Its pennys at the end of the day, So its great chance to practice.

I've made $100 from 0.05/.10 in around 2 - 3 months(on/Off playing).

Good fun, I recommend you play them but you do have "Bad beats" and high varience when the loose/Passives or the maniacs beat you with crazy hands.

Enjoy.

[BatsShadow]

He said .05/.1 not .5/1.

[wireMan]

I would say it was definitely worth it for me. I started out playing 0.05/0.10 for a few thousand hands, went to 0.25/0.50. Played a lot of hands, got a ton of practice, had many opportunities to apply some of the concepts in SSHE and from this forum. At 0.05/0.10 and 0.25/0.50 on Stars, I played about 10K hands and it helped my game tremendously I think.
The skills learned at those levels are valuable, and you do learn. The skill at 0.25/0.50 on Stars is probably almost the same as 0.50/1.00 at Empire. Some real good players are to be found at any level.
So, if you're looking to get practice and experience without the risk of losing a ton of money - YES, 0.25/0.50 and below are worth it.

[Biloxi]

I think Im going to...
Purchase *Wont Disclose Name* then
Read *Wont Disclose Name*

whats a blogger lol?

[iNsChris]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Small Stakes Holdem & PokerTracker Software - Incase you wondered.

I recommended both, But PT has yet to be purchased /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Its like a website, Blogger.com provide it - You post updates easily, Edit the template if required(Like i did).

Thanks.

[AmarilloJim1]

I think those limits are very beatable, and you should make it a goal to beat .25/.50 at least by 5 BB/100.

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
I think those limits are very beatable, and you should make it a goal to beat .25/.50 at least by 5 BB/100.

[/ QUOTE ]

Setting a winrate goal like this is bad, and shouldn't be used to measure your play. Most players may only play 10 or 20 thousand hands at a micro limit before they move on, which makes setting specific win rate goals absurd. And if you spend 80 thousand hands chasing this goal at 4.5bb/100 you're wasting a lot of time and money you could easily be making at a higher limit.

[iNsChris]

BB/100 required 10 000 hands to be considered "valid"? and not "running good"?

Thanks.
p.s. I dont rate play by BB/100 Just want to know how big my sample must be /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[AmarilloJim1]

Your point is well taken.

[AmarilloJim1]

Just food for thought...

How can you expect to be 3 BB/100 at higher limits if you can't be 5 BB/100 at .25/.50..

I agree that you shouldn't hang out for 80,000 hands, but I think 5 BB is realistic at .25/.50 with the right knowledge. Unless you hit some major - variance, I think this is reasonable.

[afk]

Check out this thread. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1342415&page=2&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

It gives you a confidence interval of what your win rate could be at a given amount of hands and standard deviation. Whenever someone asks "how many hands do I need?" there can be a rush of posters, each vying to post the highest and most ridiculous number (50k! 100k! 500k!) and they're basically right. The long run is a lot longer than most people think. But for an example, I started playing 6max and shorthand games recently on two sites - my play has not varied too drastically between sites (except for the fact that I'm getting better) - my first 5k at one site were at 3.5bb/100, at the other site? literally break even. So 5k hands, 10k hands really doesn't mean much in the whole scope of things.

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
How can you expect to be 3 BB/100 at higher limits if you can't be 5 BB/100 at .25/.50..

[/ QUOTE ]

Because basically you'll never play enough hands at .25/.50 to comfortably say that you're winning at a rate of 5bb/100. The sample size limitation makes it really hard determine any kind of specific win rate goal.

[AmarilloJim1]

Gotcha..thx.

[iNsChris]

Cheers, I dont have pokertracker so i cant use that.

Just wondered really as i was up: $20.54(205BB) Over 3428 Hands over past few days but sample size means very little i suppose.

Cheers, will use that threads once brought PT/Played good lot of hands.

[NateDog]

I get drunk and LAG the crap out of .25/.50 6 max at Absolute. But you have to be very carefull if playing tight and aggressive. I win as I am a master suckout river fish as well as drunk/laggish. 12/100 thru 2K /images/graemlins/grin.gif thanks to crap like this:

Absolute Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, BB calls $0.50 (All-In), Hero calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls

Final Pot: 24.50 BB

[Biloxi]

thats a nice pot for .25/.50 do you prefer 6handed tables?

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
thats a nice pot for .25/.50 do you prefer 6handed tables?

[/ QUOTE ]

At Absolute, yes. I don't play a lot of 6 Max otherwise, but I find the full tables to be a little tight, respective of the limit. Moreso, Absolute's software brings my comp to a screeching halt, so I'm limited to 3 tables at the maximum. I bore easily, and tend to play crap hands if bored, so 6 Max fits right up my alley. JTs UTG? Raise it up!

[iNsChris]

Lol i love that, Specially how they got aggressive as your card come up how perfect!

24BB pot gees thats $12? I can't wait /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Just need to get my bankroll slightly higher then open neteller account! Cant wait!

[doubleplus]

I started with $50 and played 0.25-0.50 up to $100, and had to play it again a couple times after moving up to .50-1 and falling below $100. I would never play it now, but if you're only break-even at 0.50-1, I think a couple weeks more of 0.25-.50 are worth the opportunity cost of bonus chasing. It does help. I can't speak for 0.05-.10, but at that level it's almost like play money. At .25-.50 it's almost like real money. /images/graemlins/smile.gif