Defending the Blinds v. Bully

[anatta]

I 3-bet from the big blind against an unusually aggressive late position or button stealer with:
Any Pair, any suited paint or Ace, A9 or KJ or better. I just call with any paint not described like KT or QT. I fold everything else.

These are my default guideline, I try to alter these slightly depending on how the bully plays after the flop. If they tend to enjoy it when someone plays back at them, I tighten up.

Q1: What do you think of these standards?

From the Small blind, on the one hand, I think I should be tighter than above since the big blind can be expected to shoulder his share of the load in preventing the blinds from being run over. On the other hand, I may want to re-raise more to blow out the BB and get heads up.

Q2: Are you tighter or looser when defending SB vs. bully than in BB. What factors influence your decision?

Thanks for any help.

[bernie]

i think it also matters how you play post flop..

if you defend, then fold on the flop or turn regularly, it's not going to slow him down much...

make sure you have an idea as for the post flop play..if you have trouble reading him postflop, keep it tight until you get a better line on his playing pattern...

post flop against this type of player is almost as important as preflop...

b

[soda]

I play tight against steal raisers - about the same hands I'd play in early middle position, adding hands like A9, KT and others that play well heads up. Then, when I do come in - I'm aggressive. I three bet a large percentage of the time. It's rare for me to call a raise in a heads up pot. I'll usually three bet and lead.

Multiway, I'm more into looking at the flop. Say I have AJo in BB. CO raises, Button calls, SB calls - I'll usually just call here. But if Button and SB fold - I'm three betting. Who thinks I should three bet with AJo multiway in this situation and why? tks.

I think it is very important to take the lead in these steal situations. You don't want to be check folding here. Make him raise, call, or fold. Get your aces and pairs to a showdown cheaply if you miss and he doesn't fold. Some players are so aggressive in steal situations that they will just about always bet if you check to them. Against this type - check call when you miss but want to showdown a good ace or small pair. Then, check raise when you hit well. The check call will cause them to miss raises on their better hands, but they won't take free cards as often as they should.

Tightening up has improved my blind results vs. steal raises. I'm actually winning money (a very small amount) in these situations. I was losing last month.

If anyone has results from PokerStat or some other program showing that you win from defending blinds against a steal raise - I'd be very interested in hearing your strategy as well.

Thanks,

soda

[Clarkmeister]

Headsup in the BB vs a reasonably aggressive CO or button, I use the infamous Backdoor standards. Backdoor was IMO one of the best posters on here for a long time. The most controvertial of his posts was to defend in the BB with K3o, something I and a fellow poster have had enormous success with.

Any ace, any suited king, any king down to K3o, Q9o, J8o, more or less any two suited, though against a good player I will muck the medium-little hands like 93s etc. And any offsuit one gappers down to 68o and offsuit connectors down to 67o.

I 3 bet regularly with the upper range of these hands.

It should be noted that I really like headsup play and enjoy shorthanded situations. This is not the case with everyone.

[anatta]

Both you and Bernie point out the importance of knowing how your opponent plays in these situations. I wasn't doing this at all in my stealing/defense play. For example, I would steal light against a loose-calling station type player with predictable results. My overall results have turned around in the 10-20 games recently, and I think it may have something to do with playing tighter and being more aware in blind play.

I have saved that part in your post about playing against predictable aggressive betters. For my own benefit, to sum up: in general, take the lead and bet out. When they don't fold and you think a pair or ace could be good, check-call. This way you can see the river cheaply, and they won't take advantage of a free card if you are ahead. ( Of course, if the opponent is just taking one off and would fold to a turn bet, you miss the opportunity to win right there. Then again, if folding for a bet were correct for him, you should want him to bet the turn as a bluff.)

Let me see if I can figure out what percentage of the time my ace or pair has to be good (or improve to win) to make check calling to the river the correct play. Preflop: He raises, I three bet, he calls. 6 sbs with the drop. Flop: I bet, and he calls. 4bb. Turn and River: I know he will bet when checked to..it will cost me 2bb to win a pot which should have 8bb in it.

I could be wrong, but I think this means my pair or ace has to win 25% of the time for check calling on the turn and river to be EV neutral. If I estimate that I will win more than one time out of four, I can check call all the way. If opponent raised on the flop, and I call him down I am paying 2.5 bb to win a pot of 9bb. 2.5/9 is about 28%.

[anatta]

I think Feeney may have referenced this debate in his book.

For my game, I look at it this way. I have an edge on my opponents primarily because they play bad cards and they chase. Right now, I want to save my gambling money for these situation. Headsup, I do not have a lot of experience to begin with, let alone playing K3o, so for now, I will play tight, but re-raise a lot to let them know its not open season. Once I get my basic guidelines down, and start to learn what to do against players who fit a basic profile, I can expand my range.

I don't doubt you make money using the Backdoor guidelines. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling you find more weak-tight opponents in Vegas than in San Diego, and that you are running over these guys all the way to the bank.

[Noo Yawk]

By playing the way Clarkmeister suggests, you'll also take away the steal tacticts of the button raiser. Once they know you'll defend, their less apt to steal on future hands.

[soda]

I'm still working on my blind play, but what I'm doing is working very well in my current games. I'm earning 2/3 of a BB for every confrontation against steal raises. I don't have anything to compare this to - but I think this is good. It's only for the last 8000 hands though, so some short term luck perhaps. Also making .49 BB against regular raises defending the blinds.

An interesting point is that perhaps these numbers are too high. I may not be defending often enough. To illustrate my point - it would be better to defend 100 out of 1000 blind raises and earn only .40 BB per hand, which is a total of 40BB than defend only 50 out of 1000, but win .50 BB each time for a lower total of 25BB.

So, tighter play *may* be costing me money overall. Does anyone else have numbers for this? Maybe we could compare? If you don't want to share information publicly - send me a private message, we can work something out.

Good Luck,

soda

[soda]

Your thinking is spot on here.

soda