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Voltron87
06-02-2005, 02:33 PM
Stacks before posting are

UTG (me) 1600
Button 3000 something
SB 2000 something
BB 800

100/200

I have AQ.

I raise to 600, got called by button.

Flop is Qxx, two hearts.

I bet 500, he puts me all in, I call.

Button has: <font color="white"> KK </font>


BB had recently doubled up from 400 to 800 when he minraised over my bb, I called with 36. Neither of the two bigger stacks were too interested in stealing blinds or taking out BB, so I figured I had to play this hand. Any thoughts? Really, this is not a bad beat post, I am just checking that everyone else is playing this aggressively and agrees that I cant coast to the end.

Phil Van Sexton
06-02-2005, 02:41 PM
I think you are losing it.

I thought you had a regular job, how do you have time to misplay all these hands?

gumpzilla
06-02-2005, 02:43 PM
I'm assuming that this post is an elaborate joke. Am I wrong?

Voltron87
06-02-2005, 02:44 PM
I probably am losing it, I'm on crazy monkey tilt right now. Non poker factors are present. I stopped playing for today, I'm only down about 6 buy ins, which is way less than I deserve considering I can't think today.

kyro
06-02-2005, 02:49 PM
Not sure why you didn't push PF, but I'm assuming you had your reasons. But no, you can't coast to the end. If I accidentally raised to 600. I'm allin on the flop.

Karak567
06-02-2005, 02:50 PM
Uhhh.... push preflop.

Voltron87
06-02-2005, 03:10 PM
I don't know why in the lords name I did not just push. Says something about how muddled my mind is.

There was one hand several hands ago where the shortstack had much fewer chips in the BB, 500, I had 77 with 1800, I minraised to 400 to make sure that blind got taken from him, if I had gotten pushed by a stack that was covering me I would fold content to have the BB down to 300. Maybe I was stuck in that frame of mind.

swarm
06-02-2005, 03:20 PM
Why aren't you pushing this preflop??

seriously....

Not that it changes this hand but this is a losing play.

Edit... I didn't read other posts before I replied so I see the quota has been met on the push preflop mantra...

I can't believe you didn't push after how tight you stated the blinds are, don't even give them a chance to think about it.

Plays like these are how large downswings are created...

Phoenix1010
06-02-2005, 03:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Why aren't you pushing this preflop??

seriously....

Not that it changes this hand but this is a losing play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against the opponents described, this is not a losing play. Although if you're not going to push, you should raise less.

-Phoenix

Voltron87
06-02-2005, 03:28 PM
yeah my raise is not the best play but it is not a losing play, by a longshot. unless i plan to bet 500 and go all in on every flop, which i didn't.

I insta push this every other day, dunno why I didn't. Got tilt?

I'm also having the telltale "getting pissed off when AK loses to A9, even though your opponent had no business folding". Normally I can brush those off easily and not let it bother me, but when losing those pisses me off I know to quit.

ripped
06-02-2005, 03:30 PM
?

raise less... I have heard it all now

Easy push here PF.. doing anything but is silly.

swarm
06-02-2005, 03:36 PM
I disagree... when you got passive big stacks in the blinds min-raising could be a disaster.

They could call in sb or big blind to see if they hit their hand. What if the flop comes KQx... now what. You let the big stack in the BB hit his K with KJ. Or worse you could hit your top pair when they hit their set of deuces.

A push gets them off good hands, passive big stacks might fold low/mid pp's. This is a push every time in this situation. Hero bottled up because shortstack got back in the game after being good as dead.

You have eight big blinds and your in the BB next, your chances of winning this SNG are dwindling and that is what matters, your not folding AQ at this juncture.

Phoenix1010
06-02-2005, 04:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree... when you got passive big stacks in the blinds min-raising could be a disaster.

They could call in sb or big blind to see if they hit their hand. What if the flop comes KQx... now what. You let the big stack in the BB hit his K with KJ. Or worse you could hit your top pair when they hit their set of deuces.

A push gets them off good hands, passive big stacks might fold low/mid pp's. This is a push every time in this situation. Hero bottled up because shortstack got back in the game after being good as dead.

You have eight big blinds and your in the BB next, your chances of winning this SNG are dwindling and that is what matters, your not folding AQ at this juncture.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course pushing is a better play. Not pushing is still not a losing play.

You're confusing looseness with passivity. He described them in terms of their lack of aggressiveness. Just because someone is passive does not mean he is apt to call often. Their lack of aggressiveness negates the main thing you would have to worry about in this situation: one of the big stacks coming over the top to steal the pot from you preflop with a weak hand. Whether or not you have to worry very much about them getting involved with you at all was not covered in the OP.

You're also confusing the blind situation. There's only one big stack in the blinds, and he's not very far ahead of you, and only half committed. The BB is the short stack, you want him to get involved. I don't see why you'd be worried about him calling in the BB and hitting his hand, he has only 600 after posting, why would he even think about flat calling?

The point of raising and not pushing is to isolate the shortstack while getting away if the big stacks wake up with big hands. The fact that they are not stealing blinds tells you that they are much less likely to get tricky in a raised pot. Their level of honesty, particularly the SB who's not that far ahead of you, will make it easy to know where you are at all points in the hand, and make it likely that you will succeed in isolating the BB.

With all that said, yes, pushing is the better play. Raising is not as horrible as you might think at first, although it is it suboptimal. With AJ and a slightly bigger stack, raising 450-500 would be much better than pushing.

-Phoenix

nova
06-02-2005, 04:20 PM
I couldn't see folding this hand 4 handed, but I think the choice comes to a PF push or a PF push /images/graemlins/smile.gif Min raise would be really tough b/c it immediately crushes you if someone plays back and you decide to muck it.

Ogre
06-02-2005, 04:50 PM
Push pf

MrX
06-02-2005, 04:54 PM
I don't know who to call here..the bad beat post police or the bad play police?

It's not close, I call the bad play police. Push pf.

MrX

curtains
06-02-2005, 05:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Stacks before posting are

UTG (me) 1600
Button 3000 something
SB 2000 something
BB 800

100/200

I have AQ.

I raise to 600, got called by button.

Flop is Qxx, two hearts.

I bet 500, he puts me all in, I call.

Button has: <font color="white"> KK </font>


BB had recently doubled up from 400 to 800 when he minraised over my bb, I called with 36. Neither of the two bigger stacks were too interested in stealing blinds or taking out BB, so I figured I had to play this hand. Any thoughts? Really, this is not a bad beat post, I am just checking that everyone else is playing this aggressively and agrees that I cant coast to the end.

[/ QUOTE ]

I despise raising to 600 here (I would go allin). When you are on the bubble and there is a short stack you want to avoid playing postflop with hands like AQo, yet your hand is also too strong to fold if reraised.

Voltron87
06-02-2005, 06:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know who to call here..the bad beat post police or the bad play police?

It's not close, I call the bad play police. Push pf.

MrX

[/ QUOTE ]

call them both.