Dry side pot on the river with 2 pair

[Ghazban]

UB .25/.50 game (no HH at work so this is from memory).

I have K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif in the BB. 4 people limp, SB folds, I check.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif ($2.75)

I check, planning to fold to any non-minimum bet. TPNK against many people out of position is not a hand I love to see. I might be ahead here but betting out and having to play guessing games about whether I'm against a better king or just a draw (or both) means I could easily lose a lot of money here but probably won't win much. Everybody else checks.

Turn: K /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($2.75)

Great turn card for me. I bet the pot ($2.75), UTG (~$42) calls, donk MP pushes all-in for ~$10. MP is horrible; he keeps rebuying for $10, then stupidly pushing mediocre hands/draws. I suspect he was slowplaying a decent king (KQ, KJ). Folded to me, and I call (would a reraise be better?). I expect UTG to fold but he calls. He probably has clubs or a worse hand than mine as he's been straightforward about leading out when he's made a hand but check/calling on draws.

River K /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($~32.75)

I have UTG covered and his stack is about pot-sized. Your move?

[kongo_totte]

Would he bet a missed draw if checked to? If he would, I´m check-calling. If you don't think he is that kind of a player, I value bet 1/2-2/3.

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]
Would he bet a missed draw if checked to? If he would, I´m check-calling. If you don't think he is that kind of a player, I value bet 1/2-2/3.

[/ QUOTE ]

considering that he still has to showdown against the allin player, no he woudlnt.

[xorbie]

Well the problem is that unless he's a complete retard, he's not going to be bluffing at the side pot. I like a normal value bet, because people tend to just push all in if they would have to call for most of their stack. Make it say $15-$20. Call a push obviously.

[Ghazban]

How about the turn? Anyone like a reraise there?

[Sephus]

i like a reraise on the turn because there are legit draws and your hand is very likely to be better than UTG at the moment.

this is not a good spot for a blocking bet because it puts money in the pot to tempt UTG to steal (if you just check he has no reason to bluff) and he is almost always on a draw anyway, so you don't get the benefit of the times he calls.

i think i check/fold to an allin (because if he pushes after you checked he has 54 most of the time) and check/call a small bet, i would really expect him to check behind.

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]
Well the problem is that unless he's a complete retard, he's not going to be bluffing at the side pot. I like a normal value bet, because people tend to just push all in if they would have to call for most of their stack. Make it say $15-$20. Call a push obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is no side pot.

[Sephus]

after further consideration, if he's bad enough to limp 54 UTG maybe he's bad enough to call a value bet with a weak king. i just hate the idea of stacking off against 54 when you know villain can't bluff and probably can't call a value bet anyway.

maybe i'm slightly biased because i figure your posting this hand is evidence that he had 54.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
i like a reraise on the turn because there are legit draws and your hand is very likely to be better than UTG at the moment.

this is not a good spot for a blocking bet because it puts money in the pot to tempt UTG to steal (if you just check he has no reason to bluff) and he is probably on a draw (or top pair?) anyway, so you don't get the benefit of the times he calls.

i think i check/fold to an allin and check/call a small bet, i would really expect him to check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are correct but I might be results oriented. I bet out $15 and he pushed. With the price I was getting on the push, I felt I had to call (as he could have either the straight or a smaller two pair) and he showed 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif. Reraising the turn probably wouldn't have gotten rid of him with his 15-outer but I think in general its superior to calling. Calling lets a bare flush draw call with lousy odds (a little over 3:1 on a 4:1 shot, assuming I don't pay off on the river) but many players at this level will call a reraise with just a flush draw for even worse odds.

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe i'm slightly biased because i figure your posting this hand is evidence that he had 54.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was planning on posting the hand the instant he overcalled on the turn.