Poker Players DO Contribute To Society

[Nalapoint1]

When you look at the whole picture poker players do contribute to society and probably more so than the average person.Barry Greenstein, Paul Phillips, and all the other players that are former teachers, professors. If these pros are paying taxes on their winnings then they are paying more in taxes than 85% of the population. 90% of the people make less than $100,000/year.

[JohnnyHumongous]

You're working under a faulty assumption- getting taxed is not a measure of what you contribute to society. It is just a form of redistribution and funding certain public goods (highways, public swimming pools etc.) that wouldn't get funded otherwise.

"Value" is what you produce that provides utility to people, whether it be apples, a TV show or aluminum siding. Poker players add no value to society in this regard. I'm not taking a shot at poker players, just stating an economic fact.

[PokerProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
When you look at the whole picture poker players do contribute to society and probably more so than the average person.Barry Greenstein, Paul Phillips, and all the other players that are former teachers, professors. If these pros are paying taxes on their winnings then they are paying more in taxes than 85% of the population. 90% of the people make less than $100,000/year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you sir, and I agree that pro poker players DO contribute to society.

[poker-penguin]

Nor do most lawyers, day traders, any sort of middle-person in a deal, and so on.

However, Poker players do contribute to society. All the big name celebrity pros produce entertainment that is enjoyed by millions of people.

Thier money has to come from somewhere, and that's the fish, who spend it on the entertainment of playing poker.

Non-famous winning players are necessary to the poker eco-system because without us / them (depending on what level you're defining "poker players" at) there's no source of new big-name pros (and possibly also to gradually transfer money upwards into the level of poker that the public find entertaining).

[Nalapoint1]

Paul Phillips sold a computer company, Barry Greenstein donates $millions to his favorite charity. Gus Hansen and others move to this country and buy houses, cars, consumer goods and spend a lot of money here.When they buy a house it provides work for carpenters, plumbers, masons etc.You have 500,000 americans playing poker online daly that dont live close enough to a casino to play. This is all extra money being pumped into econmy.I can expand on this further if you are to blind to see the total impact that poker players have on society. As Donald Trump says, you are nothing more than a puppet until you learn to think outside of the box.

[RunDownHouse]

You're confusing supply- and demand-side.

The demands of a poker player are uses of value, not drivers of value.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

1) One's "responsibility" to "society" begins and ends with not asking others to support him/her against their will. Thus, if a poker player supports himself, pays his bills, etc., he owes the collective precisely zero else.

2) When a poker player (or anyone else) spends money, he creates downstream economic value (creation and maintenance of jobs, market efficiencies, etc.).

Any individual, as long as he does not initiate force or fraud, has no ethical or moral obligation to live up to others' definition of productivity.

<hearing Ayn Rand from beyond the grave railing against libertarians as "the hippies of the right">

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[bkholdem]

Murders and theives provide jobs to the police, courts, and prison system. They also provided jobs to security companies and insurance companies. I think the complaint that poker players provide nothing to society is bs.

[imported_piki]

I do not try and ease my moral bug with conveying schemas of how me being a poker player helps society. I'm rather content with the fact that I most probably do not cause much damage and that I am not much of a burden to anyone. I consider that alone above average (which, in a way, would mean that I make society better... on average). /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

-pix

ps. rereading the above, i found out that i philosophied up a way of how i contribute to society by playing poker... now i'm ashamed /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[aujoz]

I guess the question of whether poker players contribute to society depends on how you define contribution.

On a purely economic basis, anyone who is gainfully employed (and spends money as a consumer) makes a contribution to society - their decisions, reflecting their own values and feelings, makes a better market. The more participants in a market, the better.

On a social basis, playing poker contributes to both your happiness (presumably you enjoy it) and the happiness of others (presumably other players also enjoy it).

Environmentally, it probably has little impact either way - i don't think you can really blame the energy use of computers online (or lights at a B&M casino) on poker players.

Morally, is playing poker "bad"? I guess that depends on your own personal religion/faith/spirituality/etc.

Economically: Good
Socially: Good
Environmentally: Indifferent
Morally: Unknown

[mockingbird]

I don't know about supply and demand or economics of poker. I don't know if paying taxes is enough to comprise a "contribution to society". But, apart from the entertainment argument, poker players clearly do not create goods or supply services to society.

However, it seems to me that there are many ways to make meaningful and fulfilling contributions. For instance, being a good father and husband and providing for a family in part or in whole with poker winnings is undeniably valuable. I think posting on this site to help others is of value. Even if its just to build other's skill and confidence in poker as a hobby.

Life is rarely black or white.
If someone is plagued by feeling like a "leech on society" I think this is very very detrimental to themselves. Why not give some percentage of their poker winnings to charity. It doesnt have to be in the Barry Greenstein league to be of value, not does it have to be a huge percentage. There are literally thousands of worthy causes in need of money.

And/or volunteer your time to a good cause, get personally involved. Example, donate to your local homeless shelter and volunteer once a month to give a class on essentials of using a computer or of writing a resume. Donate to a local non-kill animal shelter and voluteer to walk the dogs on occasions. Or....the possibilities are endless. Or be a better listener to others, a better son, brother, sister, spouse, parent, whatever.

Poker is not everything in life and playing poker, whether it is of intrinsic value or not, should not define an individual as useless or useful.

Sorry about seeming to ramble, I was concerned by the posts of young guys saying that they feel worthless or like a hustler or a leech because they play poker. I think that degree of self loathing is destructive and unwarranted.