Two tough reads $100NL [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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BZ_Zorro

06-02-2005, 04:18 AM

Hand 1:

Only been with UTG for two orbits, but seems fairly tight. PF raiser is a donkey, 42/23 after 100, maniac pf but very easy to outplay postflop, hence the call.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG ($164)
UTG+1 ($158.03)
MP1 ($89.92)
MP2 ($94)
MP3 ($31.7)
Hero ($107.45)
Button ($100)
SB ($95)
BB ($128.6)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $5, 2 folds, Hero calls $5, 2 folds, UTG calls $4.

Flop: ($16.50) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
UTG bets $7, MP1 calls $7, Hero...

What now? Would you assume trips are good here and try to extract some value?

Hand 2:

My notes on villain (19/5):
p AA(5)
c 77(3) 22(4)
l TT(m) 89s(co)
sudden river aggression indicates strength!!
will slow play, checked set to river, monster raised bet.
very aggressive with overpairs
bets into weakness when checked to

I'm fairly sure villain wouldn't call a pf raise with junk.
I've been playing fairly conservatively at this table, haven't made many moves.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($83.45)
MP2 ($124.75)
MP3 ($131.15)
CO ($0)
Button ($39.57)
SB ($95)
BB ($223.05)
UTG ($131.2)
UTG+1 ($83.57)
UTG+2 ($108.8)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, 4 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($8.50) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB bets $9, Hero raises to $18, BB raises to $50, Hero...

OK, so it's a set, overpair or a bluff. I decided on overpair and pushed all in. Thoughts?

Spladle Master

06-02-2005, 04:38 AM

Hand 1 you raise the flop. Build a big pot, you've got a big hand.

Hand 2 you got backwards. Bet the flop, check the turn. Raising this turn is very bad barring incredibly weird circumstances (such as that villain is dumb enough to not only call the turn raise but re-raise it with a worse hand than yours). Betting the flop is what the PF raiser is supposed to do. You have a hand, so bet it already. Checking the turn is defensible because you have too much hand to feel good about folding to a check-raise, especially against a player known to be aggressive with overpairs.

BZ_Zorro

06-02-2005, 04:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 you raise the flop. Build a big pot, you've got a big hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course. I pushed this flop because I'd shown a few big bluffs already with hands like 9 high. I expected a call from an overpair or flush + overs, maybe even AK. After the action at this point, I'm wondering if there's any reason to suspect I was behind. Are others putting their stack in on this flop given the chance? Should I have raised instead and folded to a push/reraise?

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 you got backwards. Bet the flop, check the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]Usually I would, but the flop wouldn't have helped him, and I wanted to give him a chance to bet the turn to make a bit of money. The raise was a surprise.

meow_meow

06-02-2005, 10:47 AM

Hand 1: First, I don't like the pf call here, but not a biggie. I really hate pushing though. If UTG is solid, he's either got you outkicked, has an overpair, or the underfull. MP looks like either flush draw or overpair. If you push after a bet and a call, you are basically announcing that you have a ten, and probably will only be called by someone who has a ten and likely a better kicker. I think calling with the intention of calling a bet on the turn if the flush doesn't hit and trying calling/betting the river is ok, allows UTG to continue if he has an overpair. Personally, I'd probably raise the flop to something like 20, fold to a push from utg.

Hand 2: way ahead or way behind. Your flop action makes it more likely you are ahead, but it's a bit of a flip. I probably call.

BZ_Zorro

06-02-2005, 11:39 AM

Results:

Hand 1: UTG called with KT and won the pot
Hand 2: Was right about the overpair. Villain had AA /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Both times I got stacked and with hindsight could have lost less had I played straight up.

The_Bends

06-02-2005, 12:03 PM

The preflop call in hand one is just awful and the results show exactly why. T9o is a terrible hand that can make only two hands that you'll be completely happy with (the nut straight and a full house). Your basic thinking is correct, play the maniac postflop with position and take his money but your choice of hand to do it with is just wrong. Wait for Axs KQ 67s 22 anything that actually has stacking potential.

Having played T9 and hit a great flop you then gave yourself even more problems. I agree that given his image you probably are winning but if he has loose raising standards he's far more likely to have a T than a tight player. Ok he raises, we expect that from a maniac, but pushing achieves nothing. You won't push him off a better T (as was proved by the results) you may even let him get away from a pair if he's got any sense at all. You've bet over twice the pot, only a better hand will call and everything you beat will fold. Don't overestimate your previous bluffs, likely as not no one was watching. A far better line is to call and let him bluff his money off.

Hand 2

Preflop is fine

Bet the flop. Theres a flush draw out there and a whole world of unpleasent cards that could fall on the turn. Aside from anything else if you don't continuation bet with your good hands then no one will buy your bet when you make it with nothing.

As soon as the guy leads you can narrow his actions down to two likely reasons.
1. He has nothing or a small part of the flop and it trying to take the pot away because you didn't bet the flop.
2. He had a huge hand on the flop and wiffed a CR and is now leading out to get more money in. Prime candiate here would be a set or possibly he just made trip 6s

Either way you were correct to raise. The first set of hands will fold allowing you to take it down now and the second set will reraise. He reraised, you should fold.

I realise he could have some garbage like TPTK and is just an idiot but barring that read I'm folding.

swolfe

06-02-2005, 12:26 PM

hand 1:
- fold preflop for so many reasons...
- on the flop, it's not the donkey betting, so you shouldn't be too happy about your hand. if it were heads up a push would be good, but i'd likely fold after the bet and call.

hand 2: what was your minraise supposed to accomplish?

Spladle Master

06-03-2005, 12:03 AM

Hand 1 I didn't mean push. Make a decent size raise, say to $30 or $40. If you push I doubt you'll get called by anything that you beat.

Hand 2 The only hand I would check behind here with on the flop is a set. And usually I wouldn't check that either. And I want to reiterate that your turn raise makes me want to throw up. Calling his re-raise is worse than your initial raise. Re-re-raising his re-raise is even worse than that. Seriously, there is simply no way in hell that you are winning here unless he is retarded.