My Story

[Kaizer221]

I first found out about Texas Hold’em roughly two years ago playing Hoyle’s Casino. I thought it was a fun game so I introduced it to a small group of my friends. In result, we stuck with the game and played once or twice a week. Our goal was to become advanced players before we introduced the game to others.

This led to my purchase of my first poker books, “Winner’s Guide to Texas Hold’em” by Ed Miller and “Poker for Dummies”. I was a little disappointed with these books but they did help me a little in my playing (even though I play NL).

My texas hold’em addiction did not get better when my brother came home from college for January. It turns out that the poker craze had swept through his college as well. My brother had been playing with skilled players and was a winner at Canterbury. I watched over his shoulder as he won $1000 that month on Truepoker playing $.5/1 NL.

I had an urge to play for these “high stakes” so I would scrounge up a buy-in ($50) and play in his name. I was outplayed but learned a lot. My first gambling problem occurred when I was going to buy-in once in my brother’s name without him watching. He was gone for the night. I lost my buy-in but felt I could win if I kept playing. Not surprisingly, I lost about $100-$150. This happened twice.

Luckily, at the end of January I won a tournament and only ended up down $300-$400.
Over the next couple months I purchased some more books such as “Super Systems”, “Tournament Poker”, “Psychology of Poker”. I came across 2+2 for the first time and visited every week or so. I became a better player but was still too young to play online poker.

Over that summer I found Fulltilt before it had introduced real money. I placed well in a freeroll and scored $2!!!!! As soon as Fulltilt introduced real money I cashed in and won. I started to build a bankroll. Unfortunately I still did not know about bankroll management so it took devastating swings. At any given time my bankroll could range from $5 to $300. The summer ended and I win on a big upswing and my bankroll reached $900. Then my worst poker experience ever….. I lost 7/8 of it in 30 minutes. I bought in for $200 at 2/4 NL and lost to the same guy to 4-outers on the river (the money went in on the turn). This was unbelievable and it seemed my poker career was over.

At school, rumor spread about me losing a thousand dollars in less than an hour. No one paid attention to how I made it, just how I lost it. It was embarrassing.
J-term came again for my brother and he let me do one final $10 tourney on Truepoker. I ended up placing first for $179. My brother and I decided we would transfer the money onto a new site so I could play in my own name. I then got started on a popular site.

I used lessons learned from my previous mistakes to help me on this new site. My poker library consisted of 8+ books and I started reading 2+2 daily.
In the month of January and I placed in 3 final tables in $10 tournies racking in about $4000. I reported to my dad about these winnings. He was first mad that I had been gambling for real money but then pleased that I had won so much. He made me withdraw $3000 from the site.

4-tabling NL, my online bankroll rose to $8000. My dad asked me how much money I had on my account and I lied and said I had $4000 (and I said I won it in another tourney) fearing he would make withdraw most of it. His final judgment was for me to withdraw $3000 more.

Then I turned my $5000 bankroll into $15,000 4-tabling 2/4 NL. My loudmouth brother then said something in front of my dad about the money and my dad questioned me on it. I showed everything I had to him. This led to the discussion of how I made the money (What stakes etc.). His conclusion is for me to withdraw $14,500 and only play $10 tournies. No ring games at all.

I had played 500-1k hands a day since January 1st and won $20,000. Now summer is coming and I am not going to able to play. Any comments or suggestions?

P.S. Sorry, didn’t feel like editing and I suck at writing.
P.S.S. I am also a poster in the mid/high NL section of the forum

[Anders]

Kick your dad in the balls and redeposit your bankroll and play the stakes you want.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Kick your dad in the balls and redeposit your bankroll and play the stakes you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's your money, not his. If it were me I would absolutely refuse to let him control my assets.

What ultimatums has he pulled on you so far?

[Kaizer221]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kick your dad in the balls and redeposit your bankroll and play the stakes you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's your money, not his. If it were me I would absolutely refuse to let him control my assets.

What ultimatums has he pulled on you so far?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's actually someone I'd rather not pick a fight with. He has a lot of leverage.

So far, I have until tomorrow morning to withdraw.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
He's actually someone I'd rather not pick a fight with. He has a lot of leverage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems to me as though you've already made your mind up as to what to do.

[Nigel]

If you withdraw it all, ask him to stake you with his money and cut him in on the profits, that way he is happy knowing your savings are safe and he can support you in something that you enjoy and are clearly good at.

Otherwise, make a deal in which you withdraw a certain amount of every dollar you earn, that way he sees that you are being responsible, but you also get to move up in limits.

If that fails, try getting him to allow you to leave a certain amount in which he lets you parlay it as high as you want to go.

If you are over 18 and living at home, that's another story. I don't know, just some suggestions.

Good luck,

Nigel

[the_joker]

Either you stay at home and live by someone else's rules or move out. I know what I'd do... If you really want to stay, you could try a bluff. Tell him you're going to play poker whether he likes it or not and see what happens. If he kicks you out you can say you changed you mind and decided to give up poker after all.

P.S. I assume you're 18.

[Seether]

Stop being a pussy and move out already.

[jman220]

Listen to your Dad. You're too young to be playing those stakes. You're probably too young to be playing at all, what's the harm in waiting till you turn 18?

[Richie Rich]

Hi Kaizer,

7/10. Interesting read.

Your father only means well, and doesn't want you to develop a gambling problem that may affect you in the future. Nevertheless I'm sure he's a bit jealous that you're making decent money at poker, too.

What to do this summer? Easy. (1) Withdraw some of your profits and buy your own laptop computer. (2) Open a new account at your favorite poker site (so your brother can't tell if/when you're playing).

If you happen to be doing well when you're "of age", then move out and earn your money playing poker with a job on the side, or visa versa. But I doubt it'll get to that point.

Good luck.

RR

[ChoicestHops]

What kind of leverage? Is he paying for your college? Car payments? A future apartment? Be more specific.

Unless he is controlling your life in such as way as these, keep the bankroll and move out.

[Jdanz]

obviously parents have a lot of leverage, and to tell you the truth most of these suggestions have been crap, poker at 17 is nothing compared to having your parents cloth/feed/tuition you. The really simple way to do it is reasonably. Dad i've made a lot of money playing poker and i'm good at it, it certainly takes more skill and dedication then the afternoon jobs my friends have, i'm fine with withdrawing 10,000 ( a massive sum for a kid my age) and be left with 4,000, you have my word i'll never deposit another cent, if i do happen to be wrong about my abilities and go bust i'll have allready paid for my first year of college.

No risk whatsoever, and all gain. If you treat this rationaly and maturely rather then messing with his ultimatums or brashely threatening to move out he's far more likely to treat you like a mature rational person.

If you have poker tracker show him your stats, explain poker like the science it is.

He wants you to play the 10s to keep you out of harms way ask him to monitor your bank account to make sure there are no poker withdrawls and prove yourself by playing within your bankroll. You'll show him a lot of maturity well beyond making some good money.

[Lawrence Ng]

Warlockid is that you?

Lawrence

[MrTrik]

Good story Kaizer, thanks man.

[phish]

What's he making you do with your money? Give it to him? Invest it? Explain to him that having a bankroll to play with will earn you a better return (with some risks of course) than any investment you can make.

[eleventy]

This all sounds good. Also show him all the books you've studied and have him sit and watch how you play and explain the math behind why you do it. If he has an open mind he will see poker as something other than gambling.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
This led to my purchase of my first poker books, “Winner’s Guide to Texas Hold’em” by Ed Miller...

[/ QUOTE ]

I heard that one is very light on content.

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
This led to my purchase of my first poker books, “Winner’s Guide to Texas Hold’em” by Ed Miller and “Poker for Dummies”.

[/ QUOTE ]

Winner's Guide to Texas Hold 'em was written by Ken Warren, not me.

[mindflayer]

Sounds like you have talent and time on your side. Neither of them will dissapear over summer. Buy more books, keep studying and dont miss out on what is REALLY important at your age. 6 months, 2 years or 4 years from now when your ready to take the dive, you will be ready.
If your dad told you to take that money out and invest it, you'll thank him 20 years from now.

[ckessel]

What, are you like 15 or something? If not, you're an adult, it's your money. What's he going to do, kick you out? Ask him "are you willing to ruin your relationship with your son over this?"

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Listen to your Dad. You're too young to be playing those stakes. You're probably too young to be playing at all, what's the harm in waiting till you turn 18?

[/ QUOTE ]

cheers!

[thirddan]

are you sure you don't want to take credit for such a masterpiece? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[EStreet20]

Ed Miller sues Kaizer for defamation of character and he now he has no BR at all.

[SA125]

I love all these responses that say "Screw your dad. It's yours, etc." My perspective is based on having an 18 yr old and a 22 yr old here at home.

When you reach that age, it's simple. You are either fully dependent, semi-independent or fully independent. Which one of those YOU chose to be determines how much I have to say in your life.

In your case, you should be trying to establish yourself as independently as possible even if you keep living at home. If you pay rent and all your own bills, your father would have to admit he doesn't carry you anymore and you've earned the right to say it's your money. If it's somewhere in between, then you may come to some type of an agreement. Such as you having to save an agreed amount at certain levels that he can look at. If you want to be able to ride expense free on dad, just like when you were a baby, then dad has a right to do what he did when you a baby. Tell you what to do.

One caveat though - watch what you wish for. It might come true. If you want to prove your independence, be prepared to maanage your money properly. Crying to mom and dad when you're on a bad run and broke isn't part of the deal.

[billyjex]

i would kick your brother in the balls. what an idiot.

try your best to explain to your dad how poker is a game of skill and can be profitable. me thinks he's thinking it's the same as blackjack or crap.

don't give this up without a fight. you have a chance to make a shitload of money as a young kid.

[TruePoker CEO]

My brother had been playing with skilled players and was a winner at Canterbury. I watched over his shoulder as he won $1000 that month on truepoker playing $.5/1 NL. ...
J-term came again for my brother and he let me do one final $10 tourney on Truepoker. I ended up placing first for $179. My brother and I decided we would transfer the money onto a new site so I could play in my own name."

In all seriousness, WHY would you think you had to do that ? We would have welcomed your business.

Truepoker CEO

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
He's actually someone I'd rather not pick a fight with. He has a lot of leverage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this your dad?

http://www.theocshow.com/photopost/data/502/1alan_dale_finalep.jpg

[Kaizer221]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This led to my purchase of my first poker books, “Winner’s Guide to Texas Hold’em” by Ed Miller and “Poker for Dummies”.

[/ QUOTE ]

Winner's Guide to Texas Hold 'em was written by Ken Warren, not me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Ed, for some reason your name came to mind

[Kaizer221]

FYI: I'm 17 and finishing my junior year in hichschool.

Basically, he just does not want me to become a professional gambler. My dad makes a shitload of money and expects me to go to college and get a real job like he did (which I have and still plan to do). I believe he's afraid I will keep winning. If I keep winning I'll turn to live the poker life.

Right now there's a few thousand that he doesn't know about. I will probably just invest in a new site and not withdraw until I leave for college.

[Mathemagician]

[ QUOTE ]
Right now there's a few thousand that he doesn't know about.

[/ QUOTE ]
Kids today...

[otnemem]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this your dad?

http://www.theocshow.com/photopost/data/502/1alan_dale_finalep.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img26.echo.cx/img26/1360/savagefred3216ce.jpg

[Jersey Nick]

[ QUOTE ]
FYI: I'm 17 and finishing my junior year in hichschool.

Basically, he just does not want me to become a professional gambler. My dad makes a shitload of money and expects me to go to college and get a real job like he did (which I have and still plan to do). I believe he's afraid I will keep winning. If I keep winning I'll turn to live the poker life.

Right now there's a few thousand that he doesn't know about. I will probably just invest in a new site and not withdraw until I leave for college.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. What is the poker life?
2. What is your dad doing with the $20,500 he made you withdraw? Presumably he's put it into some kind of account for you. Thank him.
3. Take out another $15,000 and give it to him.
4. Ask him to teach you how to manage your money. If he's let you get away with all this so far and didn't ground you for life, it sounds like he might be cool. Talk to him.
5. Walk away from the computer long enough to realize that when you are in school all day, you are surrounded by HOT HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS. In a few years it will be illegal for you to be caught nekked with a hot high school girl.
6. Take the other $5,000 out, rent a pimped out limo, make outrageous dinner reservations, and take the hottest girl in school to the Prom. Then bang her like a screen door in a hurricane.
7. Post a prom trip report in OOT so we can all wish we were you.

[iNsChris]

Lmfao Pure class.

Speak to your dad, YOUR WINNING PLAYER - You're lucky or doing something right. Your at 2+2 so i think its the latter(I'm sure you know the answer).

If its the latter, TELL YOUR DAD ITS WISE THAT YOU PLAY. As said, Let your dad look after your money, Withdraw large sums when required and put into a interest account.

Continue to play but dont let poker get in the way of your studies.

Good luck, Sounds like your doing very well.

[DMBFan23]

haha, very nice post.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
Right now there's a few thousand that he doesn't know about. I will probably just invest in a new site and not withdraw until I leave for college.

[/ QUOTE ]

My comment was going to be, look at it as an interesting exercize in limit climbing that you get to do without actually having to go broke first. Work your way back up...

Then I saw the above, and now I don't know what the issue is. The bankroll is a little thinner, so excerise good bankroll managment. Particularly since you really don't want to go bust with your remaining stake and have your Dad think he was justified.

Oh and I'd ignore the part about only playing $10 tourneys.

--Zetack

[AmarilloJim1]

lol.

[sahala]

[ QUOTE ]

Basically, he just does not want me to become a professional gambler. My dad makes a shitload of money and expects me to go to college and get a real job like he did (which I have and still plan to do). I believe he's afraid I will keep winning. If I keep winning I'll turn to live the poker life.


[/ QUOTE ]

He has a point. I'm sure he didn't get wealthy by being a jack-ass when it comes to investments and money management. Keeping limits on your game seems like a natural thing for a parent to do. The positive side is that he hasn't outright told you to stop playing, which indicates that a) he recognizes that you're doing well and/or b) he knows you'll do it anyway. He just wants to keep you out of trouble. He doesn't disapprove of your older brother playing, right?

[sthief09]

Ken Warren wrote "Winner's Guide to Texas Hold'em," not Ed Miller. Please give credit where credit is due. That book is a gem and Warren is a genius.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This led to my purchase of my first poker books, “Winner’s Guide to Texas Hold’em” by Ed Miller and “Poker for Dummies”.

[/ QUOTE ]

Winner's Guide to Texas Hold 'em was written by Ken Warren, not me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Ed, for some reason your name came to mind

[/ QUOTE ]


Ken Warren writes that AKo is better than AKs. Ed Miller does not. Do you see the difference?

[sourbeaver]

Interesting story.

Politely tell your dad that you know what you're doing (if indeed you are). This is your hard earned money and you should be able to use it as you please.

[Blackjack]

[ QUOTE ]
What, are you like 15 or something? If not, you're an adult, it's your money. What's he going to do, kick you out? Ask him "are you willing to ruin your relationship with your son over this?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Awful advice... can tell ya from some experience.

The other posters have already showed you the way. Restart with 4k and make sure your Dad is investing your winnings for you.

Blackjack

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
His conclusion is for me to withdraw $14,500 and only play $10 tournies.


[/ QUOTE ]

What's wrong with this? Just play a bunch of $10 MTT's with hundred of entrants and high cashouts. You can continue to develop your game, obey your father and you might win some decent money.

Your father might seem unreasonable but at least he's letting you play. Some fathers wouldn't be so permissive given the fact that what you are doing is illegal.

I wouldn't go behind his back and play games he's forbidden you to play with high buy-ins. Do you really think you could hide this from him for an entire year? You are being given a choice between having a trusting relationship with your dad and some poker or lying and possibly getting caught and being banned from poker with no trust from dad or having to move out. Seems pretty simple to me.

[cbfair]

[ QUOTE ]
Ken Warren writes that AKo is better than AKs. Ed Miller does not. Do you see the difference?

[/ QUOTE ]

Duh. AKo can make twice as many flushes. It's obviously better. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Biloxi]

[ QUOTE ]


6. Take the other $5,000 out, rent a pimped out limo, make outrageous dinner reservations, and take the hottest girl in school to the Prom. Then bang her like a screen door in a hurricane.
7. Post a prom trip report in OOT so we can all wish we were you.

[/ QUOTE ]

HELL YEA BEAT THAT SH*T UP...till its raw ahahaha

and u better have a tight azz car if you're makin that kind of cash. And dont waiste it on drugs, Stu Ungar Jr.
And go to a good state college
GL /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[cbfair]

Seriously. The posts advising some sort of compromise with your father sound like the best advice so far. Parents are just like every person in that they'll respect you if you respect them.

Ask your dad for advice in investing your money wisely then explain to him that with your remaining BR, the best way to invest it is by playing the game your best at without arbitrary restrictions. Also reiterate your committment to studies and going to college.



...Then take the hottest girl in your school to prom and bang her like a screen door in a hurricane.

[fatpants]

[ QUOTE ]

...Then take the hottest girl in your school to prom and bang her like a screen door in a hurricane.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tough to argue with this one...and I'm thinking a 17 year old with 14 large could pull this off nicely.

Good luck.

FP