KK vs JTT flop at 10+1

[gildwulf]

I have KK in the big blind at 10/15 level (2nd hand).

2 limpers and small blind completes.

I raise to 75 and get 2 callers.

The flop comes JTT.

I bet the pot, UTG reraises all-in for another 500.

No reads.

Call?

Zach

[valenzuela]

call.

[lastchance]

Instacall.

[wuwei]

He has a J or a pair smaller than your KK a lot more often than he has a T. Call.

[LeVoodoo]

Is there any level at which this isn't an easy call, assuming no reads? (serious question)

[tigerite]

Easy call but you should have raised more preflop.

[introv]

Yes ... quickly!

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy call but you should have raised more preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. You have the best hand at the table unless someone's playing Aces cute but you'll be out of position probably after the flop. Make a bigger preflop raise.

[gildwulf]

5BB raise is too small? I usually go 3XBB plus one BB for every limper. I guess at 10/15 people will call anything.

I obviously called: he had JTo (UTG) and hit quad Ts on the turn.

How often do you think he would have an underpair/TPTK/TPGK? That's pretty damned aggressive for an underpair, especially when I'm pretty much pot committed at this point (I'm getting about 3:1 to call by my I-just-woke-up pot odds).

Peace,
Zach

p.s. this is NOT a bad beat/whining post.

[RobGW]

How did villian get down to $600 on the first hand? That should tell you a lot about him. I'd bet more PF since people at the $10's make atrocious calls PF.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
5BB raise is too small? I usually go 3XBB plus one BB for every limper. I guess at 10/15 people will call anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

With KK I'll usually do 3BB + 2 for every limper. I also bump it a bit more if I'm out of position, like you are in the blind. I make it about 100 here.

[ QUOTE ]
How often do you think he would have an underpair/TPTK/TPGK?

[/ QUOTE ]

Often enough. Exactly how often? I'd say you have him beat about 80% of the time.

[ QUOTE ]

p.s. this is NOT a bad beat/whining post.

[/ QUOTE ]

LIES.

I'm kidding. Yes, it's an easy call, but if you're just starting out, I could see where this would raise some questions.

[jon_1van]

The lower the level the worse calling is. Because at the lower levels the less often someone who flops Trip Ts will think over betting the pot is a bad idea.

And I'd guess playing really high calling might be bad as well. Because people might think you are capable of calling a big overbet. However, you won't be up against a T here nearly as often.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Easy call but you should have raised more preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. You have the best hand at the table unless someone's playing Aces cute but you'll be out of position probably after the flop. Make a bigger preflop raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

There aren't too many flops where I feel bad being OOP with my KK. I think faulting the guy for only raising to 75 preflop is silly. Sure, people will often call a bit more of a raise, but sometimes they won't. His pf raise was fine.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any level at which this isn't an easy call, assuming no reads? (serious question)

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean blind level or buy in level?

I play the 20s to the 50s, and I'll call this at those levels... it's just too early in the game to have much for reads, and there's plenty of donkeys who make this play with a hand you beat.

[kyro]

It makes it even more imperative to raise more at the 10+1, btw. 75 is too small.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
The lower the level the worse calling is. Because at the lower levels the less often someone who flops Trip Ts will think over betting the pot is a bad idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure it is a bad idea. BB has shown considerable strength both preflop and on the flop. Getting check-called after making big PF and flop raises on this board is going to slow me down most of the time; I think it's probably very hard to extract any more with a T unless your opponent has a T as well, at this point. Plus, his pushing his last 500 in isn't an overbet, it's a reraise of ~80% of the pot after he calls the 225. Hero will be getting > 2:1 odds to call this, which I expect him to do, given his strength. I think pushing is fine here with a T.

That said, I think people will also push with 99, AJ-QJ, etc.

[gildwulf]

Thanks for the help. I will raise a bit more with KK from now on.

OK, so in the same vein of questioning, what to do in the same situation on similar/scarier flops such as:

1) 3-flush
2) A-rag-rag
3) Ace and two flush
4) 7-8-9

I'm guessing 1 and 4 would be calls, 2 would be a possible call and 3 would be a fold?

I guess if I'm getting >2:1 on any all-in with KK I would call, eh?

I have a hard time letting go of KK/QQ and I would appreciate the input.

Z

[lastchance]

3 flush is a call, though I reluctantly do it. 789 is a REALLY, REALLY easy call.

A-rag is a really easy fold because at those buy-ins, they've got an ace at least 75% of the time.

KK is only really bad when an ace flops.

Oh, and this flop isn't scary at all. TT2 would be MUCH scarier, and I'd still call.

[gildwulf]

Thanks for the input. Very helpful.

Just curious, why is TT2 scarier than JTT?

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the input. Very helpful.

Just curious, why is TT2 scarier than JTT?

[/ QUOTE ]

It means your game is haunted by Doyle Brunson.

[lastchance]

Because with JTT, your opponents will have KQ, AJ-QJ, and other random stuff that you own. With TT2, there's none of those hands. Of course, PP's are here.