Big 6 max pot... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

EStreet20

06-01-2005, 09:48 PM

Hey guys,

After a rough end of March I needed a pot like this in my first session of June. Any and all criticisms are welcome and I know I made one pretty questionable play but I'll explain my reasoning at the end. Any insights onto whether or not my risky reasoning was worth it/smart are very welcome.

Under the gun and button were Laggy types (UTG was a [censored] talking LAG, the best kind in my opinion) and BB seemed like he knew what he was doing, possible TAG but I didn't have PV running (shame on me). The reason I'm asking for any advice is because I'm trying to work on using my reads better and I think I did pretty well here.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB raises, UTG calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (28 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, Button calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Button calls, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 44 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 8h 8d (full house, eights full of aces).
BB has 6s 6c (full house, sixes full of aces).
UTG has Ts Ad (three of a kind, aces).
Button has As 7h (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins 44 BB. 

First preflop I decided not to raise my 88, which I know many people do, esp in 6 max, but I was on the SB with two limpers so I figured I'd see the flop.

I knew I could checkraise the flop because with the preflop action I knew someone had an Ace (probably AK). The caps here were just gravy.

On the turn, I actually pretty much knew the BB made sixes full (I didn't think A6 was a possibility, but I did fear it a little).

River, I usually automatically bet out but I had BB tagged as an aggressive player with a boat and thought that if I checked he'd have no choice to bet and the other two couldn't fold trips aces so I'd def get to check raise. I knew it was a risk but here it paid off. I was really just wondering what you guys thought of that move and if any of you would try it in that spot or if you would ALWAYS bet out to avoid possibly losing bets.

Thanks for any insight,
Matt

TStoneMBD

06-01-2005, 10:21 PM

not raising this preflop is a mistake.

mungpo

06-01-2005, 10:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
not raising this preflop is a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

EStreet20

06-02-2005, 07:23 AM

Do you guys always raise 88 preflop? I will a lot of the time, but not always. I guess in this situation it definitely cost me bets because of the two aces on the flop. Thanks for the input.

JohnnyHumongous

06-02-2005, 07:57 AM

If you are in a similar situation at 5-10 or 10-20, for the love of god slow down. You are behind A6, A4, A8 and those are the hands you are going to see shown down.

pecto

06-02-2005, 10:40 AM

I complete, just because i hate this hand withut position

bpb

06-02-2005, 11:41 AM

Screw slowing down.

You only have to be good 1/4 times to get value on the river raise/cap. Everyone has been going apeshit since the flop ... and A8 is extremely remote. Yes, someone may have turned or rivered the boat with A6/A4. But they'll play any Ax this way ... and the other guy could easily have rivered the flush.

I'd have led the river though. If there's no flush out, you risk it being checked through despite the insane action on the previous streets. If the flush is out, betting will allow you to get in a 3-bet.

MEbenhoe

06-02-2005, 11:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
not raising this preflop is a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

no

EStreet20

06-02-2005, 01:04 PM

Thanks for the tips. I pretty much always lead the river here but given the way the SB was playing I think he would've suspected I flopped a boat (with 88 or A8) if I bet but had an inkling he'd see a check as weakness and an attempt to showdown cheaply. It worked out here but I do understand the fact that I may have disatrously cost myself at least four more bets. I just couldn't see it checked through though in a hand where I knew at least one person had at least trips.

Thanks guys,
Matt

P.S. I'm not bashing any posts but I'd like to see a better argument for slowing down than someone could turn over A6 or A4. For all I knew someone could have had quad aces as well but I'll take the gamble in order to win a HUGE pot when I flop a boat with a concealed pocket pair in a raised pot. I think a timid player here would make far less in this situation than a bold one.

Grisgra

06-02-2005, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Screw slowing down.

You only have to be good 1/4 times to get value on the river raise/cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

My feelings as well. I'd be scared shitless when I did it, but you really have to cap for value at that point. You're ahead less than 50% of the time, but I think more than 25%. Given your read that BB had 66, you're even safer.

og5

06-02-2005, 03:19 PM

I had a similiar hand yesterday. Feels great taking it back from those 4 outer donks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, 3 folds, SB 3-bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (22.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls $1.51 (All-In), Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Final Pot: 31.25 BB

SB has Ad 5d (two pair, fives and threes).
BB has 8c 6c (two pair, sixes and threes).
Hero has 7d 7h (full house, sevens full of threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 31.25 BB.