A5s - one last question from today's session

[Vira]

The Gaming Club 0.05/0.10.
Table is loose and passive.

Hero is A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif on the button.

Preflop: 4 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

With this many people in the pot, should I have raised A5s for value?

Flop (7 players - 7 SB) : A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 10/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif
SB checks, BB bets, all call, Hero ???

I'm not loving my kicker now with all these callers and I've got no backdoors other than a weird double gutshot straight. A fold feels wrong, a call feels weak and a raise feels over-aggressive. What's my line?

[Delphin]

You almost have odds to draw to a three outer, which is probably what you have. I call and fold UI on the turn. With 7 players, you can be nearly assured that the other A is out there. At a loose table, a lot of players aren't folding Ax preflop.

Folding is probably okay too.

[gharp]

This is kind of scary, but I think the pot's too big to fold top frickin pair (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=462860&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=7&o=14&fpart=1). I'd raise and see what happens.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
You almost have odds to draw to a three outer, which is probably what you have. I call and fold UI on the turn. With 7 players, you can be nearly assured that the other A is out there. At a loose table, a lot of players aren't folding Ax preflop.

Folding is probably okay too.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a bit weak in your thinking. Even if another A is out there, should you both hit trips, you're probably at least 50% to split the pot (and what a nice sized pot it is). I say you've got a full 4 outs here, and decent implied odds based on the large number of players in the pot. It's an easy call.

Folding is not okay.

[xLukex]

[ QUOTE ]
This is kind of scary, but I think the pot's too big to fold top frickin pair (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=462860&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=7&o=14&fpart=1). I'd raise and see what happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't a weak play, but more the reckless route.

I agree with the first response of calling and folding the river UI.

Too many people in this pot. Heads up or 3-handed you can call down. This pot is far too multiway.

[johnc]

[ QUOTE ]
This is kind of scary, but I think the pot's too big to fold top frickin pair (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=462860&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=7&o=14&fpart=1). I'd raise and see what happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Being a top frickin pair raiser kinda guy I'd probably raise it up, but the argument for calling is compelling due to:
1) the size of the field, the chances are great that another ace is out there.
2) your kicker sucks the big one, even if you hit it pairing a higher board card counterfeits it.
3) you have no draws to fall back on.

That being said: Raise it, you got top frickin pair!

[Womble]

Hmmmmm, you really dont want people in this pot. So I dont think raising is any good. No one is folding and that is what you are trying to do. If you are intent on raising I think you should raise the turn to try and get others to fold.

Still, calling and folding the turn UI is probably the logical choice although I have seen mid pair bet flops like this /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[@bsolute_luck]

i don't think your hand is strong enough for a raise in this position with so many already in the hand. it's an easy call IMO, it is the turn i'm interested in.

[Nick C]

I would call and re-evaluate on the turn, when the action could be different.

If the action repeats itself though (and I'm guessing the SB will call the flop instead of folding or checkraising), you'll be getting the same 12:1 once again. In which case it might be worth calling again.

Unfortunately, 42s and even 42o could be out there, and if the board pairs the ten or even the three and minimizes your kicker problems, well, you've got to figure someone quite likely just made trips.

You can't really protect your hand here, unless you raise and BB 3-bets, in which case you're probably in trouble. And I don't think there's a good enough chance you're ahead to raise for value.

But I'm not ready to give up yet.

[AmarilloJim1]

My vote is:

call flop bet...fold on turn UI...

[lufbradolly]

I'd fold this. A-xs is a drawing hand and you have no draw, maybe 3 outs to 2 pair, and a fraction of an out with the backdoor straight draw, just read that everyone called so i suppose you could call and look at the turn.

[aK13]

I think I'm calling a turn and river for 1 bet each every time...