Cheating / My Memory is Different

[Mason Malmuth]

Here's part of a post that Russ/GCA just put up on RGP. (For those of you who don't know, Russ is someone that most of us never heard of until he started on his cheating everywhere campaign.)

Then the Commerce Casino opened, as crooked as a casino could possibly be. Marty Riposo, from the old Eldorado Club in Gardena was general manager and as big a crook as
ever. What a scandal he caused in the casino. Meanwhile the cheats on the list were barred when the Commerce opened up. Nothing to getting unbarred, an attorney was hired and
everyone was unbarred, since the casinos couldn't prove anything. Many of the same cheats remain to this day, and many have gone by the wayside with age. Commerce is more crooked than ever, with the Asians now in control of the cheating. They have overcome with sheer numbers.

Well it just turns out when the Commerce Club opened, I worked down the street. Since it was so convient, I quit going to Gardena, and would play there after work everyday during it's first year of operation.

But let me only address the first six months of operation. Even though the place had approximately 100 tables, it probably averaged about four games a day. Occasionally, a $10-$20 lowball draw would get started, but on most days, the biggest game was $5-$10. After about six months, their business began to pick up, but the place was extremely dead when it first opened. (Part of the reason for this was that their parking lot wasn't ready.)

Anyway, there's no way the place was cheater infested. In fact, it wasn't anything infested, and I understood it almost went into bankruptcy during this period.

But I think I'll raise Russ just to show how he knows absolutely nothing about the poker scene that he claims to be a part of. The Commerce did have a problem in 1986. The problem occurred around something called "Johnson's Joust." Well Russ, now's your chance, why don't you tell us about it.

Mason

[thebroker]

I assume you posted this challenge on RGP. I highly doubt Russ would ever be stupid enough to post here as he be attacked from all fronts.

[mikelow]

I would prefer to ignore the man. He knows absolutely nothing. Why give him the attention?

[Gabe]

I hope this isn't an invitation.

[Mason Malmuth]

I didn't post it on RGP. Someone perhaps might want to copy and post it over there. The reason I put it up here is to show our readers that the guy knows very little about what he talks about.

MM

[Easy E]

"A Challange to Russ GCA from Mason Malmuth" by moi, posted 12/23/02.

I'll add a link to this thread, if the RGP thread gets any interesting replies. I'll let you know in the title, Mason, if Russ answers the challenge.

(now, if I could only make up my mind about "e" or "a".. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[Grambo]

My memory agrees with Russ. I too was around then. I remember the glasses that Doyle wore. (Anyone in Vegas in the 80's who claims to NOT remember is not telling the truth). I remember the cold decks in loball in Gardena. I remember a lot. and yes, I remember Russ.

Grambo

[Mason Malmuth]

Okay. We'll see what happens, and I'll be checking here.

Thanks,
mason

[Mason Malmuth]

There's no question that there were once many problems in poker. I didn't move to Las Vegas until April 1987 and don't remember seeing Doyle until the end of that year. He showed up at the Grand Prix of Poker that was held at the Golden Nugget in December. I remember watching he and Chip Reese play in a very large game. It just so happened that I spent a week playing $150-$300 Razz during that tournament, and they were frequently at the table next to me. I don't remember ever seeing any glasses as you and Russ/GCA describe.

As for Russ, I've neer met him, and I never heard anyone mention him until the "Cheating is Everywhere" campaign began. David has acknowledged that he played some against him in the late-90s at some of the LA clubs, and Ray has told me that he played against him back in the 70s in Reno and around the Seattle area.

MM

[andyfox]

I used to lose, in the early 80s, with a 6-4 in lowball, far more often than I did later on when they instituted the jackpots and house dealers.

You say there were "once" many problems. There's a truth in this, and yet a falsehood as well. I think it's true things were worse back then. But that's not to say cheating still doesn't occur much more often than is generally acknowledged. Wherever gambling is, cheating is there too; that will always be true.

Russ's problem is that he has not presented his case with any degree of cogency or clarity. Worse, he has made many, many accusations, too many of them apparently false. To falsely accuse one person of cheating is more than just a shame, it's a crime. To say cheating is everywhere, as Russ has in effect done, is just as bad as saying cheating doesn't exist at all.

One thing I credit Russ with is exposing some things I, for one, hadn't known about. In answering one of Russ's posts, David mentioned that the ploy where a person's hole cards become the turn and river cards on the next hand is "well known." Well I didn't know about it until I read their exchange.

[Mason Malmuth]

While Russ makes many claims and accusations, I believe that most of them are totally unfounded, and I also believe that he claims much knowledge about times and events in which he knows nothing about. The Johnson Joust fiasco was a major scandal that virtually everyone who played poker during this time period in the LA clubs knew about. It was public knowledge.

Furthermore, it's just the type of thing that if he was aware of he would have made thousands of posts about by now. And I mean thousands. Not only would he had used it to support his case, but players like myself who were around back then would have had to verify that it was true. So, I'm going to give him time to respond better than he has, and then I will post what I know about this event that took place in 1986.

As for the two cards on the flop from a player's previous hand, notice that this was exposed by Sklansky and not by Russ. Also, I've been aware that a move like this existed since the late 1980s.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Easy E]

[Mason Malmuth]

Here’s the story, as I remember it, on Johnson’s Joust However. Before I start, I want to stress that this all took place a long time ago, and that the current management of the Commerce Club, who I have very high respect for, had not yet arrived on the scene.

There use to be a player in California who went by the name of Chip Johnson. Among other things, he gave poker lessons and collected poker chips. He also claimed to have a University of Poker. I haven’t seen or heard of him in many years, and suspect that he’s not around any more.

In 1986, he talked the Commerce Club into allowing him to move his University of Poker to their facilities. His large chip collection was put on display, he took out a two page ad in the old Poker Player newspaper, and he began to run a tournament called Johnson’s Joust.

In my opinion, the tournament was a good idea. It was actually six tournaments in one. Each tournament was heads-up matches, and after you won enough matches, you would not only begin to receive prize money, but you would also gain entry into the next higher level. The buy-in for the first level I believe was $25, and the buy-in for the sixth (and last level) was $10,000. The game to be played was called Johnson, which is a form of draw poker that was essentially high back to low, and Johnson’s Joust, if my memory is correct was suppose to last a year-and-a-half. (For those who want to know more about the game Johnson there is a description of it in New Poker Games by Mike Caro.)

Now, anyone who was around at that time, couldn’t of missed Johnson’s Joust. First, a large table was built in the center of the poker room that could have easily sat perhaps as many as 50 people on each side each playing a heads up match. (Note: I believe the games would have been player dealt, as many games were at that time, but I’m not absolutely sure about this.) Second, a statue of a knight was built with a very long spear that stuck out over the Johnson Joust table. In addition, one of the walls was converted into a large draw (like a tennis tournament) that showed all the matches for all six levels. (As players signed up and played their matches, the results would appear here. Also, if you lost, you could re-enter.)

Well, after a couple of months, Johnson’s Joust was abruptly cancelled. I never heard a reason for the cancellation, but this created a problem since a few players had already won several rounds. To placate this, we heard that Johnson had brought these “winners” digital wrist watches and had given these as their prizes. Since these watches could be brought for about $10 around town, the recipients were furious, and apparently someone contacted and complained to the Commerce City Council.

The result of this was that the city council voted on whether to close the Commerce Casino, and this vote failed by a total of one. Johnson’s University of Poker and the chip collection were quickly removed from the Commerce Club, and the heads up table, the knight, and the “tennis” draw were taken down.

Now the reason I bring this up, even though it is ancient history and should have absolutely no reflection on the Commerce Club today (16 years later), is that Russ/GCA claims to have been very active doing business with many of the different managers at all different levels of management of The Commerce Club during this time period. Yet he has never mentioned any of the above.

It’s obvious to me that he didn’t know anything about it, because, to be quite frank, it was not only a major event that virtually everyone who was playing poker in Los Angeles at that time knew about, it’s an event that would strongly support his overall case. My conclusion is that he just wasn’t there and that many of the claims that he makes are based on second hand innuendo, and that even though he may be a long time cheater at poker, most of his accusations are not based in reality.

[EASYALEX]

can somebody enlighten me whats RGP and how can i read Russ original article? thanks.easyalex

[Jeffage]

RGP (rec.gambling.poker) is a newsgroup on poker (though it is mostly about gossip and personal insults, which can be entertaining to a point). Go to www.dejanews.com (http://www.dejanews.com), then click on recreation. Then on the next page that comes up, click on rec.gambling, then click on rec.gambling.poker.

Jeff

[Mason Malmuth]

I understand that some others may want to look at this thread.

MM

[Tommy Angelo]

Mason or anyone,


What is Russ's motive?

[Howard Burroughs]

Tommy,

I think Russ said his motive is revenge. At least I think I've seen him say it at least 45 times.

Best of Luck

H.B.

[Easy E]

I didn't waste my time reading through it:

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=jur92vkd8tfceoijlvoal1dt3sabuv2 n3t%404ax.com&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26group%3Dre c.gambling.poker

[Easy E]

Mason, if you want to get rid of the link, delete the previous post of mine, since someone else pasted the text into theirs...