pushing a busted draw

[chopchoi]

Level 1 (pokerroom) I have 1,600 chips, after winning a pot uncontested on the flop It checked to me on the button, I bet big and everyone folded.

2 hands later, I get A /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif with a bunch of limpers. I know this isn't a great hand, but the table has been very loose but passive, so I figure it can't hurt to see a cheap flop with it in decent position. I'm prepared to lay it down if I hit my ace and there is a lot of action.

6 players see the flop, which is K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif. An EP player with 1500 chips bets the pot (120 chips), a MP player calls, and I call.

The turn is another 4, EP bets 120 again, and we both call.

The river is a J. EP bets 250, MP folds. I put EP on a weak King, and wonder if he would lay it down if I pushed. I say what the hell, and throw down my stack. He calls with K9o.

He had what I thought he did, but I was wrong in thinking I could get him to lay it down.

Is this always a bad play, or are there situations where I should try a bluff-raise on the river with a busted draw?

[barry111]

I dont think this works at the $10 or $15 table. What was the buy in?

[chopchoi]

It was a $10+1. What is the lowest level you think this play would be profitable?

The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that it is probably never profitable, since low-limit players won't make the lay-down, and high limit players won't be in there with crap to begin with, and won't give you a good enough price to draw to your flush anyway.

But if anyone thinks it is sometimes a good play, I would be interested to know the circumstances under which it works.

[MentalCombat]

You skipped on your best push opportunity, fake the 4 on the turn. I don't like pushing anywhere in this hand though.

[chopchoi]

[ QUOTE ]
You skipped on your best push opportunity, fake the 4 on the turn. I don't like pushing anywhere in this hand though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it better to fake the 4 on the turn? If I had it, isn't it just as believable that I smooth-called the turn and waited till the river to push? Also, doesn't the river help me, since now he has to worry about KJ as well as the 4?

[MentalCombat]

KJ he would have lost to you before the river so he already has to worry about it. You were playing a party 10, which means that by the river, your opponent already forgot about the turn. You have to think like a retard to beat a retard /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Make it OBVIOUS what you're pretending to have at that level if you want any hope for a laydown.

[Eric Draven]

[ QUOTE ]
It was a $10+1. What is the lowest level you think this play would be profitable?

The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that it is probably never profitable, since low-limit players won't make the lay-down, and high limit players won't be in there with crap to begin with, and won't give you a good enough price to draw to your flush anyway.

But if anyone thinks it is sometimes a good play, I would be interested to know the circumstances under which it works.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe 20+2... But more likely 30+3 I'd think... But it all depends on the player.