Juan Gonzalez

[KJS]

So the Indians sign Juan Gon to come to camp in Spring. He shows some flashes of his old self and makes the club, which nets him $600,000. The day they make announcement he made it he gets hurt. So it is off to the bank and then extended Spring Training and AAA to rehab.

So he fights his way back to the Bigs, meaning perhaps he will justify the 600K he netted.

But he comes up in top of the first and...injures his hamstring running out a grounder.

Jesus Christ.

KJS

[jnalpak]

ALAN HOUSTON.... nuff' said

600k is a steal

[andyfox]

Well it's understandable he injured himself, because he hasn't run out a grounder since 1997.

[KJS]

Well I think he hit below the Mendoza line in AAA, so he musta run out a few there.

To make matters worse, the Tribe had to designate their reserve LF for assignment, so they are short a man for 10 days, and can only get him back if he clears waivers.

*sigh*

KJS

[Los Feliz Slim]

He and Frank Thomas should start a useless club.

Oh, and they NEVER took the roids.

[Soul Daddy]

Still a good gamble. But he obviously sold his soul to the Devil to win 2 MVP's.

[scott8]

The tribe should get no sympathy.
Juan Gone hasn't had an injury free season in a decade.
Gambled and lost, no to mention they are a young team delevoping stars and had no business bringing him around in the first place.

[andyfox]

With Giambi an associate member.

[ArchAngel71857]

Shapiro made a huge blunder in signing Gonzalez. I think he felt pressured to get his contract extended after this year and went for a big name blindly ignoring that it's Juan Gonzalez and he sucks ass. Millwood has turned into a delightful surprise and the if the bullpen continues on its trend, then it should be clutch in late summer. HOpefully Martinez is coming out of his 4 month slump (last 2 of last season, and april-may this year) and we can not have three people in the starting lineup who hit below .200. I hope Crisp actually does make his early comeback.

Anywho, Juan Gonzalez is a worthless piece of trash whose is not pushing himself to come back because he made the opening day roster. I hope he gets hit by a bus, or pulls his hamstring jumping out of the way.

-AA

[thewarden]

Hey, Raul Mondesi is available.
Though I don't know if that's as frustrating as the "Big Hurt" getting hurt in his first game back. Probably about the same.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
He and Frank Thomas should start a useless club.

Oh, and they NEVER took the roids.

[/ QUOTE ]

Three points:
-Frank Thomas has been the most vocal player against steroids for his whole career.
-Frank has always hit solidly, even in the seasons he's been hurt. He hit very well last year.
-You're a [censored] idiot.

Perhaps you should start a useless forum and never post here again.

[johnnybeef]

no big deal...he was cheap and he was a gamble. the one that pisses me off is aaron bust...i mean boone. .165? cmon. the good news is that the pitching is phenominal, and victor looks like he is starting to hit. they still have a decent shot at the wild card if the bats can heat up here soon (which they no doubt will)

[coltrane]

[ QUOTE ]
He and Frank Thomas should start a useless club.

Oh, and they NEVER took the roids.

[/ QUOTE ]

let's please not compare Juan-Gone (career: .343 OBP) to Frank Thomas (career: .429 OBP).....

[Los Feliz Slim]

Mrs. Thomas,

[ QUOTE ]
Three points

[/ QUOTE ]

I count four...

[ QUOTE ]
Frank Thomas has been the most vocal player against steroids for his whole career.

[/ QUOTE ]

Until MLB has a reliable drug testing system that we believe catches the cheaters, players who hit a bunch of home runs but are injured a lot, and/or lose a lot of weight, and/or play in the major leagues, are going to be vulnerable to speculation. Other players I like to speculate about are Ryan Klesko, Eric Gagne and Pudge Rodriguez. I used to like to speculate about Jason Giambi, but that's not exactly speculation anymore.

[ QUOTE ]
Frank has always hit solidly, even in the seasons he's been hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, by that you mean every year? Also, his attitude hasn't always been the greatest, and I am interested to see how he accepts/fits in to whatever role he gets this year. When he's not hurt.

[ QUOTE ]
You're a [censored] idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know. God Bless America.

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you should start a useless forum and never post here again.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.decals4hunters.com/images/products/Blow-Me.gif

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
let's please not compare Juan-Gone (career: .343 OBP) to Frank Thomas (career: .429 OBP).....

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, and a point well taken. The comparison was based on coming back fom the DL and getting immediately injured again. But, thanks for sharing your disagreement with my obviously glib and admittedly shaky comment in a well-thought out and civil manner. Unlike SOME people.

[CCass]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He and Frank Thomas should start a useless club.

Oh, and they NEVER took the roids.

[/ QUOTE ]

One other difference. Frank Thomas is a HOFer. The only way Juan Gone get in the HOF is by buying a ticket.

let's please not compare Juan-Gone (career: .343 OBP) to Frank Thomas (career: .429 OBP).....

[/ QUOTE ]

[samjjones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He and Frank Thomas should start a useless club.

Oh, and they NEVER took the roids.

[/ QUOTE ]

let's please not compare Juan-Gone (career: .343 OBP) to Frank Thomas (career: .429 OBP).....

[/ QUOTE ]

Both are borderline HOF'ers, in any case. They've had great careers.

[chaas4747]

It's because of this peice of [censored] that I can't play MLB 2003 using my Royals. He ruined our year last year, and sent us spiraling down to where we are today. [censored] Juan Gone.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He and Frank Thomas should start a useless club.

Oh, and they NEVER took the roids.

[/ QUOTE ]

let's please not compare Juan-Gone (career: .343 OBP) to Frank Thomas (career: .429 OBP).....

[/ QUOTE ]

Both are borderline HOF'ers, in any case. They've had great careers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frank Thomas should be a lock; his peak is unparalleled by any 1B not named Foxx or Gehrig.

[samjjones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He and Frank Thomas should start a useless club.

Oh, and they NEVER took the roids.

[/ QUOTE ]

let's please not compare Juan-Gone (career: .343 OBP) to Frank Thomas (career: .429 OBP).....

[/ QUOTE ]

Both are borderline HOF'ers, in any case. They've had great careers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frank Thomas should be a lock; his peak is unparalleled by any 1B not named Foxx or Gehrig.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, Thomas was primarily a DH for a goodly portion of his career, and will be judged accordingly. But I think his career OPS is most definitely Hall worthy. It'd be nice to see him put another good year together, though.

[coltrane]

[ QUOTE ]


Both are borderline HOF'ers, in any case.

[/ QUOTE ]

is this a joke?.....Frank Thomas may be the best player in baseball after Barry Bonds over the last 15 years....

[samjjones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Both are borderline HOF'ers, in any case.

[/ QUOTE ]

is this a joke?.....Frank Thomas may be the best player in baseball after Barry Bonds over the last 15 years....

[/ QUOTE ]
Not a joke. Dave Kingman has more career HR's than Frank Thomas. And whatever you may believe, HOF voters look at career stats first.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Until MLB has a reliable drug testing system that we believe catches the cheaters, players who hit a bunch of home runs but are injured a lot, and/or lose a lot of weight, and/or play in the major leagues, are going to be vulnerable to speculation. Other players I like to speculate about are Ryan Klesko, Eric Gagne and Pudge Rodriguez. I used to like to speculate about Jason Giambi, but that's not exactly speculation anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is NO "reliable drug testing system" that catches anyone that's smarter than Alex Gonzalez or Jason Giambi. The "clear" Barry Bonds was using - THG - there's absolutely no piss test for it, and blood tests are hugely unreliable. The NFL does not have such a system, the NBA does not have such a system, etc.

What Eric Gagne did is not at all unsual. He converted from a SP to an RP and that conversion allowed him to add a few MPH per pitch which made him much more effective...

Pudge Rodriguez speculation isn't well-founded. He hired a new nutrionist, Sari Mellman, that has clients like Jack Nicklaus... she's actually raved about by just about everyone. Also, he was called "Pudge" for a reason... aside from that, like I said, I doubt high-profile star that was taking steroids (with the exception of Jason Giambi) was taking someone with no chance of detection in a test, so they'd probably not quit...

[ QUOTE ]
So, by that you mean every year?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, let's see, Frank has played 16 seasons and missed 30 games or more three times...

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Both are borderline HOF'ers, in any case.

[/ QUOTE ]

is this a joke?.....Frank Thomas may be the best player in baseball after Barry Bonds over the last 15 years....

[/ QUOTE ]
Not a joke. Dave Kingman has more career HR's than Frank Thomas. And whatever you may believe, HOF voters look at career stats first.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is a travesty, since Frank Thomas does things that are underrated very well (doubles and walks).

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He and Frank Thomas should start a useless club.

Oh, and they NEVER took the roids.

[/ QUOTE ]

let's please not compare Juan-Gone (career: .343 OBP) to Frank Thomas (career: .429 OBP).....

[/ QUOTE ]

Both are borderline HOF'ers, in any case. They've had great careers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frank Thomas should be a lock; his peak is unparalleled by any 1B not named Foxx or Gehrig.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, Thomas was primarily a DH for a goodly portion of his career, and will be judged accordingly. But I think his career OPS is most definitely Hall worthy. It'd be nice to see him put another good year together, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said, Frank Thomas's peak was just about unparalleled - and during those 7.5 seasons he was a 1B 75% of the time...

[samjjones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Both are borderline HOF'ers, in any case.

[/ QUOTE ]

is this a joke?.....Frank Thomas may be the best player in baseball after Barry Bonds over the last 15 years....

[/ QUOTE ]
Not a joke. Dave Kingman has more career HR's than Frank Thomas. And whatever you may believe, HOF voters look at career stats first.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is a travesty, since Frank Thomas does things that are underrated very well (doubles and walks).

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. I believe his career OPS is so good that he should be a lock, but lets face it, there are a bunch of guys ahead of him in career numbers, like Dawson, McGwire, and Canseco, who will likely not get in. Look at Rafael Palmeiro...guy has 500+ homers, and I don't think he was ever even considered one of the top 4-5 players in his league at any given time. I don't even know if he's a lock at this point. You gotta look at league context, and Thomas' and Gonzalez' stats were accumulated in the 90's, where all the offensive numbers were way out of whack.

[Jack of Arcades]

Palmeiro is a lock. McGwire is a lock.

I AM looking at context. Even with context, Frank Thomas put up such a huge peak that not voting for him is lunacy...

[Los Feliz Slim]

I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge that I am not a sports expert and I'm in over my head here. So, I'm folding. Ni han.

I still think Klesko was juiced, though. Didn't the Braves GM say something about once confronting a player he believed was taking steroids? Wanton speculation, I know, but I'm guessing you might have some insight...

[Jack of Arcades]

I dunno; I chose not to speculate. I suspect there are quite a few players on steroids...

It's not that you're not a sports expert, really - 99% of the world knows SQUAT about steroids... and these are the people leading witchhunts and calling for two year bans and putting their fingers in their ears and singing.

Steroids need to be legalized and monitored very carefully simply because they're so dangerous. If they were legalized, it'd be out in the open, with education, with doctors monitoring it, with studies, etc. Barry Bonds can more or less take steroids with impunity because he has doctors monitoring him 24/7, getting blood tests, etc...

[coltrane]

check out Frank Thomas' sick 10-year run:

1991: 32 HR, .452 OBP, .552 SLG
1992: 24, .438, .535
1993: 41, .426, .606
1994: 38, .487, .729
1995: 40, .454, .606
1996: 40, .459, .626
1997: 35, .456, .611
1998: 29, .380, .480
1999: 15, .413, .471
2000: 43, .435, .625

and then after some injury problems in '01 he rebounded with this:

2002: 28, .361, .472
2003: 42, .389, .562


he really was the prototypical run-creating, on-base machine, power slugging super-hitter right before it was even in fashion....

[Jack of Arcades]

His first four seasons (1991-1994) were better than Albert's...

[siccjay]

[ QUOTE ]


is this a joke?.....Frank Thomas may be the best player in baseball after Barry Bonds over the last 15 years....

[/ QUOTE ]

lmao

I like Frank but come on.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


is this a joke?.....Frank Thomas may be the best player in baseball after Barry Bonds over the last 15 years....

[/ QUOTE ]

lmao

I like Frank but come on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no, it's not a joke, especially if we're talking about position players only. His competition from 1990 to present day is essentially, uh, Larkin, Alomar, and Griffey. They all edge him in career value, but only Griffey is still around - and he's not doing much - and Thomas's peak is better than theirs.

[Uston]

His competition from 1990 to present day is essentially, uh, Larkin, Alomar, and Griffey.

You rate Larkin higher than Biggio? Assuming this isn't an oversight I'd like to hear why.

[samjjones]

Larkin finished in the top 10 in MVP voting twice in his 19 year career. He has 2300 hits, and didn't even hit .300 for his career. I don't see him getting in until he reaches the veterans ballot.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
His competition from 1990 to present day is essentially, uh, Larkin, Alomar, and Griffey.

You rate Larkin higher than Biggio? Assuming this isn't an oversight I'd like to hear why.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Larkin was a shortstop; Biggio was a 2B. Shortstops, on average, don't hit as well - yet, Larkin was a better hitter than Biggio.
2) Larkin was a wizard defensively; Biggio, well, Biggio was a fine second basemen, but he wasn't a wizard.
3) Larkin's best years stack up very well against Biggio's best; Biggio, even in playing more games, doesn't yet have the career value of Larkin...

Larkin = 7th best SS of all time (Behind Honus, Arky, A-Rod, Cal, Yount, and Banks). Two of the guys in front of him had SIGNIFICANT time at other positions (Yount, CF. Banks actually played more games at first than short). Cal, we know. A-Rod might end up spending a large amount of time at 3B. Larkin is actually one of the leaders at games played at short, I think...

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Larkin finished in the top 10 in MVP voting twice in his 19 year career. He has 2300 hits, and didn't even hit .300 for his career. I don't see him getting in until he reaches the veterans ballot.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Larkin finished in the top 10 in MVP voting twice in his 19 year career." What the [censored] kinda of sentence is that? He also finished in the top ONE in MVP voting once in his 19 year career. It also happens that despite the fact that Barry Larkin kicked total [censored] ass, the Reds won the division twice during his career - in 1990 and 1995. Oh boy, guess what? Those were the years he was in the top 10! What a [censored] coincidence.

"He didn't even hit .300 for his career" - yeah, how many shortstops have? I can think of, like, three. Honus, Arky, and Boudreau. Who am I missing?

Larkin should be a goddamned lock. It's a travesty he isn't.