Playing against a table full of LAGs

[durron597]

No real reads except that the table ranged from the loose passive donk to the loose aggressive donk.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 (t5165)
CO (t1780)
Button (t5300)
Hero (t1215)
BB (t2290)
UTG (t5315)
UTG+1 (t13890)
MP1 (t3115)
MP2 (t820)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP3 calls t50, CO calls t50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t200) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t150</font>, MP3 calls t150, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1165</font>,

[JackOfSpeed]

At first I was like, huh? And now I'm like, eh.

Even if their LAGs, I think the only time they're calling your push is the time they have you in bad, bad shape. But I guess you don't have enough chips to play it any differently. Tough spot.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
At first I was like, huh? And now I'm like, eh.

Even if their LAGs, I think the only time they're calling your push is the time they have you in bad, bad shape. But I guess you don't have enough chips to play it any differently. Tough spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Note two things:

1) The number of chips in the pot when it gets back to me compared to my stack (and how nice it would be to have them in my stack)
2) The word "donk" when describing my opponents. The push was a value bet.

[LethalRose]

you're either way ahead of behind here, personally i dont like risking 1000 chips to win 500. They have to fold 1/2 the time for you to break even. Id wait for a stronger hand and fold this on the flop. mp3's call screams a set or a draw of some type. More power to you if it worked but this isnt the safest way to accumulate chips, im a little more causious.

[A_PLUS]

You dont have to make them fold, just win the hand. If they really are as bad as you say, I think some posters may be over estimating them. I think it is probably close to 50/50 that you are ahead. If you think they will fold KJ (doubtful if they are true donks) I think it is a decent play. The only reason to consider it is that you are getting short, otherwise, I agree that there are better ways

[LethalRose]

Also-

Heads up I like this, but after someone bets and gets a call i dont think im ahead here much.


also avoid insulting players when you take notes on them, this will cause you to make bad decisions.

[adanthar]

Calling the flop, and then CR'ing any non-club, non-A turn, does the same thing with much better results.

edit: Also, I bet out.

[rockythecat99]

I knwo they are terrible players but since they are terrible players KJ easily calls here and doesnt think twice. I dont like the all in check raise. Yes you have top pair but these dummies could be playing Kx and now they flopped two pair and you are dead. I lead out here as I dont want to put my tourney on the line with K10. Also notice that you know nothing of BB's hand. He could be playing K2sooted and you are way behind here. Lead out and find out where you are at. Dont like the play much.

[JackOfSpeed]

So, because they are donks there's no way that they could have you beat here?

Your hand is not nearly strong enough (and your stack not nearly big enough) to get cute with the check-raise here. Lead out the flop. You might be able to get away with a "value-bet" play like the one you made in a cash game, but this is a poor play to make with this hand in a tourney, IMHO.

Obviously, if they raise your flop bet you are put to a tough decision. But, like other players have said, your push is twice the pot...you're doubtful to win more than those 500 chips, because even if they are donks (are you implying they would play K9 type hands?), they only will be calling here if they are way ahead.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
No real reads except that the table ranged from the loose passive donk to the loose aggressive donk.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can see you were one if the loose aggressive donks.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling the flop, and then CR'ing any non-club, non-A turn, does the same thing with much better results.

edit: Also, I bet out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for actually talking about the decision I care about.

In this hand against these opponents, I felt the decision was between leading out and check-raising allin. But I felt like check-raising allin was the best way to get my stack in against what was almost certainly the best hand IMO.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No real reads except that the table ranged from the loose passive donk to the loose aggressive donk.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can see you were one if the loose aggressive donks.

[/ QUOTE ]

MP3 called with K4o and I doubled up.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
MP3 called with K4o and I doubled up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then good read, donk.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MP3 called with K4o and I doubled up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then good read, donk.

[/ QUOTE ]

You call me a donk like this move is standard for me. When you're shortstacked at a table where people are calling allins with med pair/no draw garbage and a steep payout structure, you have to adjust to build a stack.

A friend told me I shouldn't post extremely read dependant hands. I guess he was right *shrug*

[betgo]

You didn't post the buyin. In the tournaments I play in, these kinds moves don't work.

[JackOfSpeed]

"You didn't post the buyin. In the tournaments I play in, these kinds moves don't work. "

Seriously. It's like he posted this hand without any of the other essential info about the tourney just so he could say "look at the brilliant play I made." What a worthless thread.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
"You didn't post the buyin. In the tournaments I play in, these kinds moves don't work. "

Seriously. It's like he posted this hand without any of the other essential info about the tourney just so he could say "look at the brilliant play I made." What a worthless thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I was unsure of my play, even with a read. I'm allowed to defend my play even though I was unsure of it!

Why does the buyin matter if I gave you a read about the players? If I gave you no reads at all in the original post, then you could berate me for not giving the buyin. But I said in the initial post that the table was all loose idiots, so why does the buyin matter?

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does the buyin matter if I gave you a read about the players?

[/ QUOTE ]

The buy-in usually gives us a better and important perspective, even if you are pretty specific with reads (or no reads). There's a very significant difference between table textures and dynamics at different buy-ins (as with the ability of people to make incredibly stupid calls). for instance, if you tell me "villain is capable of making some very loose calls", it's obviously very far from being the same thing for a $5 or $1000 buy-in.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does the buyin matter if I gave you a read about the players?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you had KT in a limped pot, made a big overbet allin on a Kxx flop and got called by K4. You are saying this was a good play given your read of your opponents. This kind of play would not work in a $50 tournament. I think this was a freeroll.