My first hand eval: K/K on the button [Archive]

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marchron

05-31-2005, 04:36 PM

Early at the table, no reads either on the table or the players.

.25/.50, 9-handed

Preflop: marchron is button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, UTG+2 calls, UTG+3 raises, 3 folds, marchron reraises, 3 folds, UTG+3 caps, marchron calls.

Flop: (10.5 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+3 bets, marchron raises, UTG+3 reraises, marchron caps, UTG+3 calls.

He obviously has some kind of hand, but given how cheap the table is, he could have anything, I suppose. I put him on A/Q.

Turn: (9 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG+3 bets, marchron raises, UTG+3 reraises, marchron calls.

I was afraid of A/A or Q/Q and backed off when he reraised me. Good move?

River: (15 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG+3 bets, marchron calls.

No draws. Fold, crying call or raise?

Final Pot: 17 BB

gharp

05-31-2005, 04:39 PM

I found this a little tough to read, but maybe it's just me. You can find bisonbison's "normal" hand converter here (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi).

I say nice hand -- I think you have to slow down when he 3-bets you on the turn. He capped preflop making AA and QQ very real possibilities.

Jakesta

05-31-2005, 04:42 PM

Looks good to me, but try to river a King next time.

topspin

05-31-2005, 04:43 PM

I'm calling down from the turn on. All you beat is JJ and AQ, and AQ is unlikely given the preflop action.

iNsChris

05-31-2005, 04:46 PM

Play it the same, Think we've lost though. However the .25/.50 on my site is like this then Ace High Wins /images/graemlins/grin.gif

bozlax

05-31-2005, 04:50 PM

Against an unknown, I put him on a big pair when he caps preflop. On the flop, he's telling you that his big pair is better than your pair of queens (if that's what you're now holding), so I say he's either got AA or KK. It's also possible that he was just trying to bully you with QQ/88/66 preflop, which made a set on the flop. Regardless, against an unknown that capped me PF and then led back out on a raggedy flop like this, I'm calling down without the absolute nuts, because I think the best you can hope for at this point is a chop (if he's also got KK).

Jakesta

05-31-2005, 04:52 PM

Calling down from the flop bet is weak-tight.

Hero played this hand fine, except maybe he should have just called down from the turn bet. But just calling UTG's flop lead is weak-tight.

Quercus

05-31-2005, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I put him on A/Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's more a hope than something indicated by the preflop play and his reaction to your flop raise.

Sarge85

05-31-2005, 05:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He obviously has some kind of hand, but given how cheap the table is, he could have anything, I suppose. I put him on A/Q.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://ww2.choicemall.com/asignshoppe-qcommerce-com/images/narrow.gif

Think range of possiblities.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

aK13

05-31-2005, 05:47 PM

Capping hands are QQ KK AA, and *maybe* JJ and AK. I definitely don't see JJ or AK calling a cap and leading the turn. We're behind very often. I call after he leads the turn, and call a river, and let him show me his AA/QQ.

DMBFan23

05-31-2005, 05:52 PM

against any sane opponent I much prefer calling the flop and raising either the turn or the river. probably the river.

an important consideration here is that if he is betting AK/JJ/TT, then we let him continue to do so. in addition, we lose the least to AA/QQ.

benkath1

05-31-2005, 05:54 PM

I think I would play it the same way.

Nice hand.

irishpint

05-31-2005, 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Capping hands are QQ KK AA, and *maybe* JJ and AK. I definitely don't see JJ or AK calling a cap and leading the turn. We're behind very often. I call after he leads the turn, and call a river, and let him show me his AA/QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cap AK and JJ nearly every time.

tkmoore

05-31-2005, 06:13 PM

I am not folding this pot for a single bet on the river.

milesdyson

05-31-2005, 06:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
against any sane opponent I much prefer calling the flop and raising either the turn or the river. probably the river.

an important consideration here is that if he is betting AK/JJ/TT, then we let him continue to do so. in addition, we lose the least to AA/QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this. IMO, a Q high flop is one of the worst things you can see with KK and a capped preflop pot. OP's line results in TT/JJ/AK possibly finding a fold, and allows AA/QQ to repeatedly own him with bet after bet. This is the type of hand where you only get action if you're losing.

If I did raise the flop, I would not cap. If I did cap, there's no way I'd raise the turn after he leads again.

istewart

05-31-2005, 06:27 PM

Nice points miles, didn't think of it that way.

aK13

05-31-2005, 06:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Capping hands are QQ KK AA, and *maybe* JJ and AK. I definitely don't see JJ or AK calling a cap and leading the turn. We're behind very often. I call after he leads the turn, and call a river, and let him show me his AA/QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cap AK and JJ nearly every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

People like you are few and far between =O.

marchron

06-01-2005, 01:44 AM

Results in white below: 
UTG+3 has Ad Ah (two pair, aces and eights).
marchron has Kd Kh (two pair, kings and eights).
Outcome: UTG+3 wins 17 BB.

Jakesta

06-01-2005, 01:45 AM

I knew that before even looking. Sucks, but that's poker sometimes.

bottomset

06-01-2005, 03:41 AM

wabe

06-01-2005, 07:32 PM

If you follow your line and raise the river, do you fold to a raise or make a crying call?

For the OP, yeah, when you cap the flop and he comes out betting again, you're likely beat. Call the turn bet, call the river bet, have a swallow of beer, and go to the next hand.