I got the card I wanted! Now, I'm in trouble. [Archive]

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bkm

05-31-2005, 03:52 PM

$20+2 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2878)
SB (t4894)
BB (t228)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls t400, SB completes.

With a small pair, I didn't want to take any chances by making a big raise and the SB would've called a small raise if he had anything remotely playable.

Flop: (t1028) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t1028) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

This counterfeits my pair. At least I have an easy decision - I fold to any bet. 

River: (t1028) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)

SB bets t400, Hero ???

Oh, crap! Now, I have a full house, but if SB has a Q or 7 he has a bigger full house. The SB's t400 means nothing. He does that often whether he has a hand or not and there's no reason for him to think that the 4 helped me. He could have a full house, a flush, a pocket pair higher than 7s, an Ace that might win a battle of the kickers if neither of us improved, or he could have nothing. So, what do you do?

If SB has a Q or 7 and BB has a Q or 7, I finish in 3rd.
If SB has a Q or 7 and BB has neither, I finish 2nd.
If SB has neither then there is a good chance I'll be chip leader.

jcm4ccc

05-31-2005, 04:02 PM

I would have pushed preflop. The only way you could end up in third place is if all three of the following take place:

1. SB calls your bet
2. BB's hand is the best of the 3 hands
3. SB's hand is better than yours

This seems like a remote possibility. A pair is great three-handed. You need to push that edge.

TheNoodleMan

05-31-2005, 04:04 PM

dfscott

05-31-2005, 04:07 PM

I simply call here. Your hand is good, but not great. It is possible that the SB is bluffing an A or has a flush. 400 to make 1500 is a good deal and it won't hurt you much if you're wrong. No one is calling a re-raise that doesn't have you beat, so just showdown your baby boat.

johnnybeef

05-31-2005, 04:08 PM

hero pushes preflop

tech

05-31-2005, 04:08 PM

You still have a decent-sized stack even if you call and lose. Just call and hope for the best.

momo24

05-31-2005, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]

If SB has a Q or 7 and BB has a Q or 7, I finish in 3rd.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the river bet is only t400, you can call and still have ~ t2000 left. Even if the BB wins the hand, he'll only have ~ t700. Why do you think you'll finish third? Am I missing something?

Oh, and push preflop.

durron597

05-31-2005, 04:20 PM

I think you have to minraise the river. The SB has given you no sign he has a better hand than yours (why not bet an earlier street?) You are leaving chips on the table the times he decides his A high is good.

I think it is unlikely enough that the BB's hand is better than both yours and the SBs that you should have no problem value raising here.

Edit: I want to add that it is likely that the SB is betting here just to guarantee himself the sidepot.

momo24

05-31-2005, 04:30 PM

If you're the SB, what hands are you calling a minraise with? If I'm the SB and HERO minraises, I'm folding or pushing. I vote for taking the cheap showdown.

adanthar

05-31-2005, 04:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to minraise the river. The SB has given you no sign he has a better hand than yours (why not bet an earlier street?) You are leaving chips on the table the times he decides his A high is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

The number of times he calls the minraise with A high is greatly outweighed by the number of times you get 3 bet and puke.

The Yugoslavian

05-31-2005, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
$20+2 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2878)
SB (t4894)
BB (t228)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls t400, SB completes.

With a small pair, I didn't want to take any chances by making a big raise and the SB would've called a small raise if he had anything remotely playable.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why you push....pushing here is certainly very +$EV. Whether or not you can make a more +$EV one by either playing a flop or raising smaller than allin is up for discussion...I guess. I don't really think it's close here. You push and PROFIT BITCH.

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: (t1028) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t1028) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

This counterfeits my pair. At least I have an easy decision - I fold to any bet. 

River: (t1028) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)

SB bets t400, Hero ???

Oh, crap! Now, I have a full house, but if SB has a Q or 7 he has a bigger full house. The SB's t400 means nothing. He does that often whether he has a hand or not and there's no reason for him to think that the 4 helped me. He could have a full house, a flush, a pocket pair higher than 7s, an Ace that might win a battle of the kickers if neither of us improved, or he could have nothing. So, what do you do?

If SB has a Q or 7 and BB has a Q or 7, I finish in 3rd.
If SB has a Q or 7 and BB has neither, I finish 2nd.
If SB has neither then there is a good chance I'll be chip leader.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh...okay, so you're definitely at *least* calling this, yes?? Folding is like worse than all of the awful folds put goether that I made yesterday due to brain damage from too many STTs in 4 days.

I'm as or more worried about the shorty having a 7 or Q here...but that's just me. Both of these players have random hands. There are two queens and two sevens in the deck and a bazillion of other cards....I'm not up for figuring out how likely the SB *and* BB is of having one of these 4 cards...but it's not good. In fact, it's very, very unlikely.

I think you either raise to a fishy amount hoping an A comes over the top of you....*or* you just push anyway and hope an A calls you.

Oh, and if both the SB and BB have a Q or 7 then you can go sacrafice a small puppy or something to the poker gods if you'd like b/c they hate you very very very much.

Yugoslav
Who does actually like puppies.../images/graemlins/grin.gif