Can't just be bad luck [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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XxGodJrxX

05-30-2005, 11:46 PM

I only have about 3400 hands in my database, but I need some advice now. I started playing online a little over a month ago. I started at Party .5/1, then to Paradise .5/1 to take advantage of bonuses. All in all, I made a killing. I put the money back into Party to take advantage of the reload bonuses and I'm getting killed. My BB/100 is not atrocious over the last 1900 hands (a little better than -2bb/100) or so, but most of my sessions have been losing sessions over that span (and the last nine straight), and my winning sessions are not that great. At first I thought it was just bad luck, but now I think I am seriously doing something wrong. I'm not sure if my stats are any good at this point, since I have so few hands, so I'll just post some hands and you guys can tell me if I'm doing something wrong.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB raises, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has 4c 4h (three of a kind, fours).
Hero has 9c 9s (one pair, nines).
Outcome: SB wins 15.50 BB. 

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (9 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (9 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (7 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button raises, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (17 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 23 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+2 has Ah 6s (three of a kind, aces).
Hero has 4d 6d (flush, ace high).
Button has 9c As (full house, aces full of nines).
Outcome: Button wins 23 BB. 

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 raises, MP3 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls.

River: (22.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls, MP1 3-bets, MP3 caps, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 34.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ac As (three of a kind, aces).
MP1 has Kc 4c (straight, ace high).
MP3 has Kh Qc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 17.25 BB. MP3 wins 17.25 BB. 

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: (8 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (14 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 16 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 8s Ks (flush, king high).
MP2 has As 5s (flush, ace high).
Outcome: MP2 wins 16 BB. 

I am also losing pretty consistently with hands like AJs and AK. But the most lost $$ is going to hands like the last one above, big hands that get crushed and I lost like eight or nine bucks at once. Somebody give me a little advice. This could just be a downsing (as far as I know, I am not playing any differently than the first month or so). Tell me if my small sample of stats could help out as well.

Much Thanks in advance,
Freddie

aK13

05-30-2005, 11:50 PM

Hand 1: I probably wouldn't raise 99 against this many limpers, and I'd pull a check/raise on that flop.
EDIT: I guess you can't check/raise on the button -_-. I'd raise a late position bettor.

Hand 2: raise the flop to pump your draw (you've got the entire field trapped for an extra bet).

Hand 3: Dump your hand when the river is 2 bets back to you.

Hand 4: Fold preflop. I'd be 3betting that turn also.

If this happened to you all in one session, that is some serious [censored] luck.

milesdyson

05-30-2005, 11:53 PM

Don't post results. I am not looking at them, though. Since you did not provide reads, I am going to assume normal players, who are too loose and too passive.

Hand 1: You can fold the turn.
Hand 2: I am raising the flop for a free card + value with 3 sure callers and the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif showing. I would probably check raise this river, as Button obviously woke up on that second ace.
Hand 3: Fold the river for two cold. Someone has a king.
Hand 4: Fold preflop. 3-bet the turn. You have the 2nd nuts and someone just called two cold. Get bets into the pot.

UncleSalty

05-30-2005, 11:57 PM

I agree w/ aK13's assessment completely. Other than needing to exploit an equity edge in hand 2, you played these all correctly. Edit: And fold hand 4 PF.

Don't sweat it. Keep playing a solid game and winrate will take care of itself.

Jakesta

05-30-2005, 11:58 PM

Hero did not play these correctly.

He should have played these as Miles suggested. miles's post is 100% right. Maybe some of this variance, but some of it is bad play and chip bleeding.

UncleSalty

05-31-2005, 12:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hero did not play these correctly.

He should have played these as Miles suggested. miles's post is 100% right. Maybe some of this variance, but some of it is bad play and chip bleeding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I guess I missed the fold in hand 1. I agree with that rather than calling down after the check/raise.

They (and I) agree on the other three hands though. Given there's a better way to play almost all of these, I guess we've found some links. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

That's what I get for posting once I've quit playing for the night and I've got 3 glasses of Dewar's in me. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Jakesta

05-31-2005, 12:13 AM

What about the Aces hand? He can let it go on the river, when it's clear someone has the straight. Calling 4 bets on the river is just chip bleeding.

UncleSalty

05-31-2005, 12:30 AM

/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Pass the Dewar's.

I don't play like this, I swear.

Jakesta

05-31-2005, 12:31 AM

Lol it's fine.

XxGodJrxX

05-31-2005, 12:42 AM

In hindsight, I see that the Aces hand was a huge mistake on my part. I was thinking that since both the players have been playing passive the whole time, I might be able to see the showdown for two bets in this gigantic pot (probably the biggest I've ever seen). Obviously it didn't work out like that and I went ahead and punched myself out afterwards.

On the other hand, the K8s hand was in a very loose game (well over 40% vpip for the table). Although I usually play pretty tight from early position, I figured it would be profitable to play since they were suited and expected lots of limpers. Besides me, there were six other people, is this really an unprofitable play?

You guys are really helping me out, here are some other hands that I've been having trouble with.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 4.25 BB

I hit my set and barely made crap, should I have slowplayed this? As of tonight, I am actually losing money with 99.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

AJs has been the most unprofitable hand in my whole databse amazingly.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, Button folds, UTG calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Thanks a lot for all the replies so far. It is all gold.

-Freddie

Jakesta

05-31-2005, 12:45 AM

They all look good except the last one. Just call the turn in the last one, semibluff plays don't really work that well in low limit games.

milesdyson

05-31-2005, 12:50 AM

Hand 1: No, don't slowplay this, unless you think the guy would be on a stone bluff a reasonable amount of time (ie. don't let him fold his bluff). In general, just bet and raise with glee because he will call.
Hand 2: You need to get reads to play hands like this optimally. I don't mind how you played this hand, but I can imagine folding the turn against some players.
Hand 3: Bet the flop. There is some chance you have the best hand, there is a chance you fold out both hands that have 6 outs to beat you, and there's also a chance that the king on board scares them into folding hands that are beating you (a 3, a pocket pair, maybe even a 9). Since you didn't, and UTG is deciding to bet the board pairing turn, I don't like your raise. He usually has some part of the board, and will not fold it to your raise (he will 3-bet sometimes, too). See if you hit an ace or a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on the river.

Schwartzy61

05-31-2005, 12:50 AM

I see he posted more hands, these are in response to the OP...

The first hand I think you played as well as you could have. Not much you could do in a situation like that.

The second hand, again I think you played this one pretty well.

The third hand, depending on my reads on these guys I think I might fold this turn with it two back to me. It's obvious the J helped both of these guys as they call the flop and come alive on the turn. 4 to a straight is not the kind of flop you like to see w/AA even when you flop a 3rd ace. Preflop and on the flop you made the right moves, not much you can do when someone is calling two cold on the flop with a gutshot. But I would not call two to me on the river no matter what the reads and certainly not two more again, the river on this one would cost you 100 hands worth of profit for a good player at this level...

Hand 4, I probably fold preflop. But once you flop a flush you have to play it like its the nuts. I might call the flop raise and then checkraise the turn. But I am certainly trying to get a lot of money in the pot as soon as possible and certainly don't worry too much with the A high flush. At the conclusion of that hand I might thank the tard with the A high flush for saving me money...

Jakesta

05-31-2005, 01:05 AM

What makes you think that a 9 will fold here?

Schwartzy61

05-31-2005, 01:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 4.25 BB

I hit my set and barely made crap, should I have slowplayed this? As of tonight, I am actually losing money with 99.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, MP1 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

AJs has been the most unprofitable hand in my whole databse amazingly.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, Button folds, UTG calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Thanks a lot for all the replies so far. It is all gold.

-Freddie

[/ QUOTE ]

The first hand I play it the same and hope he bets into me again on the turn. I would then raise the turn. But by calling the flop I think you increase the chance that you will make a BB off of him. But he was probably just defending his BB liberally, came up empty and was hoping you had an Ax, Kx, or PP that whiffed on the flop and you would fold. Be thankful you even got a .5 BB out of him if he had squat. The long run is a long way away and 99 will wind up being profitable for you. The way you played your two pocket 9 hands I would say you have no issues with playing this hand properly.

Second hand, why call the turn and fold the river? Depending on your read on MP1, you could have probably folded the turn. Or go ahead and raise the turn and see how he reacts. By calling you are committing 2 BB into the pot if you ask me. YOu ahve not outs to improve over a flush and only a few to improve over two pair. I would probably call down if I'm calling this turn, and am only calling this turn if MP1 is an aggressive player.

I think you were a little overagressive on the last hand. Raising doesn't accomplish much. Your outs to the A and J are both dirty because of a paired board and only the A is an overcard. You have a roughly 6 to 1 shot to make a flush and with implied odds a call here is a given. Better yet a call may keep the other guy in and add another bet to your odds. And then check/fold the river UI.