The wonders of 25NL : AK suited

[sourbeaver]

No reads, except this is 25NL and these are typical 25NL players.

What's your line ?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 ($17.5)
MP3 ($20.7)
CO ($39.6)
Hero ($25)
SB ($24.95)
BB ($6.85)
UTG ($27.65)
UTG+1 ($29.2)
MP1 ($21.5)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $1.35</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $2.75, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $1.65.

Flop: ($9.60) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $0.25</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $24.65 (All-In)</font>, MP2 calls $14.25 (All-In), Hero folds.

Turn: ($55.75) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: ($55.75) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $55.75

[wdeadwyler]

Why did you (almost) minraise preflop. That seems more donkish than the villains here...

[theredpill5]

I wouldn't have even reraised preflop with AK . Actually, Sourbeaver, I thought you didn't raise preflop with AK .

[wdeadwyler]

Why no reraise preflop?

[theredpill5]

It's a drawing hand. Even if those guys are idiots, if you miss the flop what are you going to do ? Are you going to try to outplay some calling stations ?

[sourbeaver]

Gotta try different things /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[sourbeaver]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you (almost) minraise preflop. That seems more donkish than the villains here...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have to chalk that one up to the multitabling, although I probably wouldn't make it much more, perhaps 4.5-5$.

Still, what about the flop.. do you fold here ?

[DoubleDown]

If I re-raise preflop I make it more like $5 or so to go

as it is, I like the fold -- you might be ahead here (considering its Party 25NL) but I find better spots to get my stack in

[swedeD]

You don't raise with AKs at NL25?? Damn, I have been fooled. I just raised with AA, KK and QQ when I started to play NL25 and my winrate have never been higher since then. After reading post here at 2+2, I now raise with AK, AQ and sometimes JJ. Hmm, calling stations never fold a pair. Maybe I should go back to that tighter strategy...

Do you only raise with AA and KK?? Do you have a winrate over or below 10PTBB/100 hands?

[imported_anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a drawing hand. Even if those guys are idiots, if you miss the flop what are you going to do ? Are you going to try to outplay some calling stations ?

[/ QUOTE ]

What the hell are you talking about? Why do they have to have a premium pair, or any pair at all for that matter? Why can't they have ATs? Why can't they completely whiff, call a continuation bet for no reason, then fold to your second barrel on the turn? Why should expect the worst? I see this kind of talk over and over in SSNLHE, and I wonder how you guys win a dime playing this way. Weak!

[imported_anacardo]

I like making it about $5 to go here preflop. If UTG pushes on a limp-reraise I'd probably have to muck about 80% of the time unless he's abnormally loose, then you might as well flip a coin. Ditto for MP1. Postflop, I think your line is just right.

[sourbeaver]

Reraising with AK is a good preflop semi-bluff, although I agree that against 25NL players, this probably isn't very effective since they don't know what a reraise usually means..

BTW, at 25NL I do raise AK preflop because I have no problem stacking with TPTK. I will not play it the same way at, say, 100NL or higher for the opposite reason /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[imported_anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
Reraising with AK is a good preflop semi-bluff, although I agree that against 25NL players, this probably isn't very effective since they don't know what a reraise usually means..

BTW, at 25NL I do raise AK preflop because I have no problem stacking with TPTK. I will not play it the same way at, say, 100NL or higher for the opposite reason /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense.
At tougher games with aggressive, thinking players, you'll need to be throwing in a few raises with a wider range of hands, not a narrower one.

An occasional preflop raise w/ a small pair or a suited connectors or something is absolutely essential in games with attentive players PTing you from top to bottom. You must throw in the illusion of action. Consider the criminal amount of information you give away if your raising range is something like, AA-KK early, AA-TT, AKs middle-late! How do you expect anyone to put their chips in?

[sourbeaver]

[ QUOTE ]

Do you only raise with AA and KK?? Do you have a winrate over or below 10PTBB/100 hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope (see answer above in thread). Over.

[sourbeaver]

[ QUOTE ]
This makes no sense.


[/ QUOTE ]

This makes sense if you want to go slower with TPTK-type hands. Which is what you might want to do against tougher opponents.

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
Reraising with AK is a good preflop semi-bluff, although I agree that against 25NL players, this probably isn't very effective since they don't know what a reraise usually means..



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that reraising with AKs in position should be considered a semi-bluff (I would maybe even do it oop in a multiway pot preflop). When you say AKs is a "drawing hand", this is really misleading. The difference between drawing hands and made hands is pretty much arbitrary. When you think about it, all that matters are your mathematical odds to win. Sklansky says something pretty similar in one of the 2+2 books. I think reraising with AKs (preflop) is a def +ev move because it does so well against the large range of hands your 25nl opponents are raising with anyway (q10 openraise UTG, etc). Since you are practically a coinflip (to the river) against all of the legit raising hands besides the top 2. This is especially true when more than one player calls the raise. You can come over the top with a nice edge in equity and hopefully get it shorthanded if not heads up. I'm not saying I do it all the time, it varies depending on my opponent, but for the normal range of 25nl donks, im reraising. As for after the flop. Play some poker /images/graemlins/wink.gif

PS AKs does much better when it sees all the cards (due to hitting on turn or river). I think this is a possible counter-arguement but I still don't think it is strong enough to overcome (a proper) edge in equity. Although, I am curious as to what the odds are to "hit" the flop (with aks). I have no idea how to do this, or if you even can.

[imported_anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This makes no sense.


[/ QUOTE ]

This makes sense if you want to go slower with TPTK-type hands. Which is what you might want to do against tougher opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you mean? AKo is a near-premium hand. It's quite likely to be the best hand going to the flop in any given situation. Barring loose call-downs or a hopeful draw, TPTK hands tend to win relatively small pots; your opponents will either miss the flop &amp; fold to a continuation bet, pass with their eights vs. two overcards, peel one to the turn and fold to continued aggression, etc. Seems to me this is definitely a situation you want to speed up, rather than slow down, on. Take the 5-6 BBs or so that you can extract w/ proper aggression now, before they find out they're going to brick on the flop.

[wtfsvi]

Make it at least $4, better yet $5, preflop. After that you played perfectly in my opinion. (For no reads.)

Why do you play $25 still? You've done that for quite some time now, so you must have built your bankroll past that stage? (And obviously your ability is far past it.) Do you multitable very heavy?

[sourbeaver]

[ QUOTE ]


Why do you play $25 still? You've done that for quite some time now, so you must have built your bankroll past that stage? (And obviously your ability is far past it.) Do you multitable very heavy?

[/ QUOTE ]

8 tables in fact. Good hourly rate and practically no variance is good for me right now (student debts I'm happy to pay back /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[wtfsvi]

Student loans? Pft /images/graemlins/cool.gif Move to my part of Norway, and the government will have payed them for you within ten years. It's good to live in a socialist society /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[sourbeaver]

Quebec ain't bad either. It's only 2k a year tuition for every University in here, I can't complain /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[wtfsvi]

You pay tuitition at the Universities? That's crazy! /images/graemlins/grin.gif We don't actually. But we pay 30-40% tax on income, so I guess it weighs in about equal. (Including all the other free stuff we get.)

Haha, you're like them guys in South Park with their heads cut in two horisontally?

Ok ok. This is not SSNL content. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sourbeaver]

Unfortunately, we have high taxes also. Highest bracket being 50%.