Theoretical Questions regarding Poker Bots

[NYCNative]

Please be aware of two things:

1) I know that having a bot play your poker for you is highly against the rules at any poker sites you could even think of.

2) I have zero inclination and even less ability to implement such a nefarious scheme with my own play.

I enjoy playing poker and do not do it to get rich. I am not looking for someone to build a poker bot and I'm not looking for someone to sell me one.

However, I am interested in a theoretical discussion about how feasible it is to create a bot that plays 16 SNGs at once with a positive ROI so all the owner of the bot/program would have to do is sit back and let the bot make all the plays. Or plays high-stake cash games.

I am sure that any online poker place will notice sich a thing immediately so I don't think it's a good idea. I am only wondering if it was possible in theory and if it would be profitable in practice because such a concept intrigues me.

See, I don't think it would work because poker is not just about the cards - even at limit (although I agree that this seems easier for limit games than NL or PL ones) and I think that programming a machine to every decision would be nearly impossible and that skillful players would eventually crack the "code" of such a machine as easy as I used to crack PacMan in the arcades of my youth.

[Uglyowl]

If we have the technology to send a man to the moon, I am sure someone could build a bot to beat poker at some low-mid level, up to what point is debatable. Just that the play is not that good.

The higher levels, I really don't think could be done.

[teddyFBI]

do a search on the forum for the Saabpo threads from a few months ago

[GuitarMarc]

20 years ago, computer programs could beat an average to above average chess player. Now off the shelf chess software can beat a very high percentage of players. The best software has beaten the highest rated player in chess history. Now apply that to poker. Of course it's doable.

[Uglyowl]

Chess and poker have many differences. It has been discussed ad nauseam why the chess arguments can't be used 100% here.

[awval999]

I'm sure it could beat low-limit games. Honestly, how hard is it.

Only play certain cards, when you do raise, pocket pairs only proceed with set. Draw with 4 to a flush and OSED.

Wow, I just beat .50/1.00

[GuitarMarc]

Yea, honestly I haven't read the threads on chess vs. poker. It was just a quick thought using the analogy. For average play, I think it would be possible to make a decent bot.

[eastbay]

The state of the art research (in public, anyway), is being done here:

http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~games/poker/

Read. Learn.

eastbay

[largos]

The problem with programming a robot is that even though you could make it beat the games , software updates ( like color change -image or different structures)makes your programmed code useless. You will have to do it from the start when an update occurs and the sites are aware of this and change apperance from time to time.

[Synergistic Explosions]

Poker bots are not my major bot concern. I've noticed a decrease in horny date companions lately. After asking a few questions, I come to realize that sex bots are decreasing my success rate with the women.

If sex bots become widespread, I am convinced I will become backed up and have to find alternative forms of release for pleasure beyond the poker tables.

Sex bots are in their infancy right now, but even so they seem to be making dramatic impacts with the women population. Although amounting to no more than crude ramming devices they are still enjoyed immensely I am told. Imagine when they become more sophisticated and can simulate intricate moves such as foreplay and spooning! Then the world of dating as we know it will be over!

[CEE]

Here's my theoretical question about bots... Everyone talks about how easy they would be to detect... but how different would a bot play than a 10-tabling low limit 2+2er???

Seems like the easiest way for sites to reduce the profitability of bot development is to do away with multi-tabling. Most fish do not multi-table. Only robots and profitable semi-robotic semi-pros... Why make it easier for them? (From the site's perspective, anyway) What percentage of PartyPoker's handle is contributed by tables 2 - N played by multi-table players?

[Phill S]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with programming a robot is that even though you could make it beat the games , software updates ( like color change -image or different structures)makes your programmed code useless. You will have to do it from the start when an update occurs and the sites are aware of this and change apperance from time to time.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a guy recently talking about his software for using a gamepad to play poker on.

It uses 'hotspots' on windows to click the buttons. All you would have to do is adapt something similar to a bot and away you go. Provided the buttons dont move, no problems. And if they do you can tweak it quite easily i imagine so it now works.

The playing rules arent too hard. Im no expert but i think i could write the rules to make a profitable bot at party SnGs (there is software in the classifieds that can be a basis for calculating push ranges). It wouldnt be perfect, but it could work with a small ROI at the 10s or 20s. I know there are others a lot better than me in the 1TT forum who would come up with better rules.

The input is found through the hand histories found on the harddrive so that is easy enough - no image scaping is required.

All it would take is a good enough programmer to put it all together. And i dont think finding one capable would be hard - scour a uni or two, you will find at least 3 capable i imagine. Slip the 3 of them a grand or two, and as a team they could get around any problem you may have.

As an addition, you can plug in a piece of software that automatically joins tables (this is the hard part of the running, its so easy to do it that this doesnt exist yet for human players, despite the demand being there). If not possible, just come back every 45 min and start another 20 games over 5 skins.

The only difficulty is camourflaging it enough that it wont be spotted - this is the major difficulty. This is the one saving grace for human players right now. If you could hide it well enough, the above is easy enough to implement.

The research done publicly is easy enough to find. Its the above model, or the saabpo mk2 that we need to worry about. If sites arent up to scratch with security - we all know the potential consequences.

Phill