Finally got a Royal Flush lol,

[ThaHero]

And it wasn't even worth anything...just a small portion to my horrible day today lol. Should I have raised the flop? bet the turn? I was goin for a check raise on the turn.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, CO calls, SB folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

River: (3.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 9c Jc (straight flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 4.50 BB. </font>

[awval999]

Bet the turn.

But I bet you got too excited. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ThaHero]

lol honestly I did. I was in shock. I agree I should have bet the turn, big mistake. Even if they all folded on the turn it would have been the same result as checking and betting the river and watching them all fold.

[Jordan Olsommer]

[ QUOTE ]
lol honestly I did. I was in shock. I agree I should have bet the turn, big mistake. Even if they all folded on the turn it would have been the same result as checking and betting the river and watching them all fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why bet the turn? You have the stone cold nuts, and nobody else apparently has a hand yet. Nobody is going to give you action if you bet, seeing as how there are four clubs out there, and every single one of your opponents are drawing dead, so you lose nothing by giving them a free card.

Personally, I think it's best to give them a free card and just hope that someone either makes a hand they'd be willing to bet into four clubs with or takes a stab at bluffing the pot. There seems to me to be no gain whatsoever in betting the turn here - only potential lost bets (the very slight possibility of potential lost bets, but possibility nonetheless). On the river, there is a good chance that a singleton club will take a stab at the pot, and there is the very slim (but still possible) chance that someone with two pair will make a full house on the river, in which case he, thinking that you just have a flush, will give you plenty of action.

I see absolutely no reason to bet on the turn here, unless you get some kind of bonus for ending the hand quickly.

[iNsChris]

Check the turn,
Check the river.

I've got a royal flush and i want everyone to see /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SomethingClever]

Interesting open limp preflop.... I'd usually fold that first in.

Bet the turn.

[afk]

Why were you trying to check-raise CO on the turn? What indication did you have that he would bet?

[ThaHero]

CO was an agressive player that frequently bet pots that were checked to him in last position. Maybe the 4th flush card scared him from doing this.

Im confused about this hand. I dont know whether to check the turn and river hoping someone bets or just betting the turn or river.

l dunno what the odds of getting a royal flush is but I know its infrequent enough that I shouldnt worry too much. I'm more worried about slowplaying flopped monsters in general. Is the best thing to do just play passive hoping someone improves to second best? Last week I flopped a full house and slowplayed, 2 players got straights on the river and one got a flush. The river was capped and I got 25 BB if I remember correctly. Maybe Ill post it if I can find it.

[Jordan Olsommer]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting open limp preflop.... I'd usually fold that first in.

Bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why the hell is everyone saying to bet the turn?? What could that possibly accomplish? Nobody is going to give you action, and it is impossible for you to get drawn out on, so a free card is 100% harmless!

Meanwhile, by checking the turn, you:
a) allow someone with a singleton club to maybe think that he has the best hand
b) allow someone to bluff at the pot on the river
c) give an opponent with two pair the possibility of making a full house on the river (in which case he'll give you all the action you want)

I don't understand why everybody is saying bet the turn. You're not going to get called (who's going to call you? the lone 8/images/graemlins/club.gif?), and you give the other two guys a chance to either make a hand or convince themselves that they already have the best hand or that taking a stab at the pot is worthwhile.

So yeah, just saying "bet the turn" without saying why - not exactly convincing here.

[Pov]

I happen to agree with betting the turn, but as you suggest, some explanation is in order. IMHO, it is pretty much never correct to slowplay the turn unless you're likely to get overcalls raising would scare away.

Let's say you're up against that two-pair hand - is it more likely they will call on the turn while thinking they are probably beaten but drawing to the boat or on the river after they miss it? Bet while they still have hope. If they don't call no matter what they hold, the chance they'll improve to a hand that will call on the river is incredibly small.

What about someone holding a straight or a set? He isn't going to bet, but he will very possibly call at least one bet. Let's give him a chance to call two.

Singleton club? Well if it exists we know it is a low one. He is *much* more likely to call on a prayer than to bet. Low clubs that may have called will almost certainly check this through.

Basically there is only one reason not to bet and that is if you think your opponent is more likely to bet than to call. That is a very small minority of hands / players and it would take a very strong read for me to take that approach. Even CrazyBluffingDrunkFishGuy knows what 4 clubs and two opponents means. Fortunately his inner fish is likely to "keep you honest" with a call but bluffing is pretty unlikely.

That's my take on it anyway.

[Pov]

[ QUOTE ]
Is the best thing to do just play passive hoping someone improves to second best? Last week I flopped a full house and slowplayed, 2 players got straights on the river and one got a flush. The river was capped and I got 25 BB if I remember correctly. Maybe Ill post it if I can find it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask yourself this: Would raising on the turn have made more than half of these players fold? If they were willing to cap the betting on the river with a paired board and 3 to a flush you would have made more money by raising on the turn almost guaranteed.

Slowplay on the flop when there aren't any good draws available - even then it's frequently wrong unless the pot is small - you don't want them to pick up a good draw that can beat you if the pot is already fairly large. The rest of the time you're more likely to be missing bets. Any hand that is likely to improve to something that will get into a raising war with you will likely happily pay a few bets to get there first. They are more likely to miss than to hit - make some money before that happens.

NL is a somewhat different story.

[Jordan Olsommer]

Thank god - I was beginning to think I was being the butt of some kind of practical joke, with everyone saying "bet the turn" and nobody saying why. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Let's say you're up against that two-pair hand - is it more likely they will call on the turn while thinking they are probably beaten but drawing to the boat or on the river after they miss it? Bet while they still have hope.

[/ QUOTE ]

This depends very much on who you are up against. The guy has four outs to fill up, and would be getting 4.5-to-1 on his money. The most he can milk out of the pot is 8.5 (unless you want to assume that the third person goes along for the ride and caps the river as well with god-knows-what), so not even the implied odds give him the right price to fill up.

[ QUOTE ]

What about someone holding a straight or a set? He isn't going to bet, but he will very possibly call at least one bet. Let's give him a chance to call two.

[/ QUOTE ]

On a board with four clubs?? Maybe the PP games are looser than I suspected, but come on - the guy with the straight is drawing completely dead if one of the remaining two players has a club! A set is looking at ten outs, any one of which if he hits he's going to give you tons of action, because he'll think that you only have a flush. The set is getting the right price to call, but with the action on before and on the flop it's extremely unlikely that anyone has a set in the first place. I say check and give him a chance to make his hand on the river. Even if he doesn't, your bet on the river smells enough like a bluff under normal circumstances to get calls from sets and/or straights! You are completely shooting yourself in the foot and losing potential bets if you bet on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]

Singleton club? Well if it exists we know it is a low one. He is *much* more likely to call on a prayer than to bet. Low clubs that may have called will almost certainly check this through.

[/ QUOTE ]

A prayer of what? The fourth club shows up and you come out betting, then some guy holding the 8/images/graemlins/club.gif thinks that you just made a higher flush (after all,the two clubs that beat him, J/images/graemlins/club.gif and 9/images/graemlins/club.gif are still out there). Checking on the turn and betting on the river may convince him that nobody else has a club, and even if he doesn't come out betting, he'll probably call a bet on the river, whereas I don't think he would on the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
Basically there is only one reason not to bet and that is if you think your opponent is more likely to bet than to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the river that's true, but I never suggested checking on the river - I think it would be silly to check-check, and I also think it would be silly to bet on the turn; check on the turn, if someone bets, great, if someone doesn't, that's ok too, just bet on the river and someone will probably look you up, either suspecting a bluff or thinking that his 8/images/graemlins/club.gif is the best. All that betting on the turn does IMHO is say "hey, I've got an awesome hand, now GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!" which of course is the last thing that you want. You want both of your opponents to be convinced that they have a shot at winning this pot, and giving them 4.5-to-1 on an 10.5-to-1 shot to fill up (or hoping that a made straight will somehow not notice that there are four clubs on the board) just doesn't accomplish that.

[ QUOTE ]
Fortunately his inner fish is likely to "keep you honest" with a call but bluffing is pretty unlikely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely, which is why I think checking the river would be a huge mistake. You're almost certain to get looked up by a table sheriff even when neither player made their hand. Add this to the remote (but still possible) possibility that someone fills up and thus gives you tons of action, or if someone just has a club and the action convinces him that his baby-flush is good, and you have a huge mistake in chasing them out on the turn IMHO.

To put it another way, a lottery ticket has a ridiculously remote possibility of winning, but which would you rather have - a lottery ticket or a dog turd?

[Pov]

Very valid points - it's just a question of what you think is more likely. In my experience you get a lot of calls from hopeless hands in low limit play. I find the profit of getting people to draw incorrectly and pay even more when they hit are significantly higher than the profits of letting them draw for free and paying when they hit. I don't believe it is particularly close, but I could be wrong.

Give your opponents more opportunities to make huge mistakes and you might be surprised. I don't think this is limited to Party either, but it is certainly prevalent there. If you never ever slow-played on Party &lt; $2/$4 I don't think you'd cost yourself very much money and if you do it a lot you'd probably make a lot more by not doing it.

Hopefully some others will join in with their experiences.

[Jordan Olsommer]

[ QUOTE ]

Hopefully some others will join in with their experiences.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed. Although I still think that 10 times out of 11, the situation will be a choice between getting 1 bet on the river out of the table sheriff (or possibly two if the other fellow has a handtoo), or zero bets on the turn.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
The guy has four outs to fill up, and would be getting 4.5-to-1 on his money. The most he can milk out of the pot is 8.5 (unless you want to assume that the third person goes along for the ride and caps the river as well with god-knows-what), so not even the implied odds give him the right price to fill up.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think your opponents are going through this thought process?

People call with hopeless hands all the time.

[Jordan Olsommer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The guy has four outs to fill up, and would be getting 4.5-to-1 on his money. The most he can milk out of the pot is 8.5 (unless you want to assume that the third person goes along for the ride and caps the river as well with god-knows-what), so not even the implied odds give him the right price to fill up.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think your opponents are going through this thought process?

People call with hopeless hands all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but with four clubs on board, the only hand someone's going to call with (besides a small club of their own) is three of a kind or possibly two pair, in order to make a full house.

If you bet on the turn, 9 times out of 10 everybody folds and you win 0 bets.

If you check on the turn, bet on the river, you win 1 bet from the table sheriff (because as prone as people are to call with hopeless hands even though they see four clubs, they are way more prone to "keep you honest" at low-limit) at least - that's not counting the times when someone else has a club and your check on the turn convinces them that their baby-flush is best, or when someone actually does fill up and they're going to cap it on the river because they think you only have a flush and they're going to extract as many bets from you as they can.

So it seems to me that it's a simple choice between winning either 0 bets nearly all of the time, or at least 1 bet nearly all of the time and more bets than that some of the time.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
Check the turn,
Check the river.

I've got a royal flush and i want everyone to see /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Uncheck 'auto-muck' and BET!

[iNsChris]

lol fair point i stand corrected and lower in chips /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[lozen]

Got my first one at pokerroom yesterday $500 bonus too /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ThaHero]

Awww that sucks I didnt get anything!