Do you call this all-in bet?

[Bigwig]

Party $50.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (2 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t4600)
Hero (t5400)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t4600 (All-In)</font>, Hero???

[durron597]

HU = read dependant. Can you give some background?

Edit: To be a little more useful, I call if I think his range of hands includes A2-A4 and K2-K4.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
HU = read dependant. Can you give some background?

[/ QUOTE ]

2nd hand heads up. I won the first uncontested by raising JTo from the button.

There you go.

[curtains]

I would almost always call. Basically I would need a really good reason not to, which sometimes occurs, but rarely.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HU = read dependant. Can you give some background?

[/ QUOTE ]

2nd hand heads up. I won the first uncontested by raising JTo from the button.

There you go.

[/ QUOTE ]

How aggressive was he 3 and 4 handed?

[Sykes]

I'm the only one that voted fold because I think you can just take it by stealing on the button and waiting for a better spot.

[utmt40]

Call!

[curtains]

If you win 55-60% of the time you are headsup in this situation than you should probably fold. However I doubt anyone can win that often with huge blinds in a $55 sit and go.

[treeofwisdom7]

dude less than 5% of all possible hands have you beat right now.. why woundt you call

[treeofwisdom7]

[ QUOTE ]
dude less than 5% of all possible hands have you beat right now.. why woundt you call

[/ QUOTE ]

let me rephrase myself. 1/20 times he will have a better hand when you have 44.. why would you fold

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude less than 5% of all possible hands have you beat right now.. why woundt you call

[/ QUOTE ]

let me rephrase myself. 1/20 times he will have a better hand when you have 44.. why would you fold

[/ QUOTE ]

This is only true if he will raise with any 2 cards. Since he probably won't and we already know he likes his hand well enough to raise, the odds are. However it's also unlikely he has JJ-AA, because people usually want to milk such hands when headsup.

[lehighguy]

Even if you conclude he has two overs, this is the easiest goddam call in the world.

1) You already have your blind in the pot.
2) You are getting 57/43. I would take a 57/43 a billion times a day if I could.

This is not even close. If you are questioning calling this you need to drop down to $10SnGs.

[curtains]

Yeah bigwig, drop down to the $10s, if you dont call this its obvious you cant possibly beat the games.

[treeofwisdom7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude less than 5% of all possible hands have you beat right now.. why woundt you call

[/ QUOTE ]

let me rephrase myself. 1/20 times he will have a better hand when you have 44.. why would you fold

[/ QUOTE ]

This is only true if he will raise with any 2 cards. Since he probably won't and we already know he likes his hand well enough to raise, the odds are. However it's also unlikely he has JJ-AA, because people usually want to milk such hands when headsup.

[/ QUOTE ]

my friend what i said above is always true. and if hes not going all in with what would be a coin flip then hes hella lucky..

[treeofwisdom7]

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah bigwig, drop down to the $10s, if you dont call this its obvious you cant possibly beat the games.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he can fold knowing that his opponent had a higher pair here then he would be the best player in the world and i would give you money to play WSOP..

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if you conclude he has two overs, this is the easiest goddam call in the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, genius. If I can conclude with absolute certainty that he has two overs, I'd obviously call. I'd also be super rich, with my super ESP ability.

[ QUOTE ]
2) You are getting 57/43. I would take a 57/43 a billion times a day if I could.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are NOT getting 57/43 over pusher's range.

[ QUOTE ]
This is not even close. If you are questioning calling this you need to drop down to $10SnGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to take you behind the woodshed.

[elonkra]

i agree with bigwig and durron - depends on read to me

[lehighguy]

If you look at his OP, he is not doing this here.

Moreover, there is ABSOLUTELY, no way to know this based on math and betting patterns. The only possible reason I would accept is a physical tell and that would require live play.

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
If you look at his OP, he is not doing this here.

Moreover, there is ABSOLUTELY, no way to know this based on math and betting patterns. The only possible reason I would accept is a physical tell and that would require live play.

[/ QUOTE ]

FE is everything.

[lehighguy]

If I narrow the villians all-in range to:
22+,A2+,KQ,KJs

It is +EV to call (by alot).
And that doesn't even count the observation that he is less likely to go all-in with AA-JJ.

In the very unlikely event villian is tighter then that then you can fold. I've almost never met villians that tight though. You would have to present strong evidence to make that read.

[Bigwig]

Okay--wait. Pay attention to the following:

The blind is 400. That means that villain has 11.5 BB's entering the hand, and I have 13.5. Which means that if we backed out of heads-up play for a moment, all-in moves aren't absolutely necessary. If villain raised to 1000, or 1200 with a garbage steal, and folded to my all-in, he wouldn't be dead. Not by a long shot. He'd have 8.5 BB, and would be one hand away from a strong chip lead.

By moving in (as Curtains said), he almost certainly does not have JJ-AA (although I'd move this to QQ-AA). But, we can also elminate most complete garbage hands (T8o, for example) since Villains goal would be to steal the blinds with that holding, and an all-in isn't necessary.

Generally speaking, I'm probably about 50-55% equity here. With the stacks and blinds, I'm getting 45.6% to call. So my edge is 4-9%. That's good enough for me heads-up at a $50, so I called. But the reason for me posting the hand was to see if a significant number of people would want a larger equity edge when both stacks have over 10BB heads-up.

I do think it's a call, and I did so relatively quickly. But this poopy talk of 'it's obvious, move to the $11s' is annoying.

WTF, are all of you Irie disciples?

[lehighguy]

If you think you want a bigger edge here then one of the following is true:

1) Villian is so unbelievably tight you can win the tournament without showing cards.

2) You are so good at HU that you mock that edge and you should be playing 215s.

Having 10-12xBB HU is all-in or fold territory. If someone min raises me here I go all in on any two instantly. Villian my realize this too.

And if villian has a hand that he is willing to call all-in with then he will reraise you anyway. However, by min-raising you are widening the range of possible hands he can call or push back with, is this what you want? And if he has any brains he will try stealing from you.

I know the even stacks with 200/400 blinds comes up alot. I hate playing it. I think its the worst HU situation ever. Can't push all in, and raising is a total waste of time.

[microbet]

I call, but if I folded I wouldn't move down to the $11s. If I knew from previous experience with him that he was a total wimp HU, I might fold. 22 might be a fold if I just thought he was a bit tight.

[Scuba Chuck]

While I think it 's okay to call this, I don't think there is a need to call this. If you had 25% or 75% of the total stacks, I would call this.

Scuba

[curtains]

If by folding you will win a lower % of the time than you will by calling, then yes there is a need to call this. You just have to determine whether or not this is true (and in my opinion it is).

[treeofwisdom7]

[ QUOTE ]
If you look at his OP, he is not doing this here.

Moreover, there is ABSOLUTELY, no way to know this based on math and betting patterns. The only possible reason I would accept is a physical tell and that would require live play.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow.. YAH W/E lets play some heads up then.. the game is about math and betting patterns and sorry to tell you this but online poker doesnt have PH TELLS//

*sigh*

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
If you think you want a bigger edge here then one of the following is true:

1) Villian is so unbelievably tight you can win the tournament without showing cards.

2) You are so good at HU that you mock that edge and you should be playing 215s.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Just no. It's very possible that I can get a better edge with the blinds this low. Very possible. With 44, your edge is clearly defined. It's almost certainly not 4-1 or 3-2.

Additionally, I'm calling here. The fact remains that most players do not call enough heads up. That ability to steal blinds is certainly valuable, and worth passing up certain edges heads up with these stacks.

Finally, stop with the level suggestions. You can criticize a play I make, but you're being foolish with criticizing my ability. I'm pretty good. I doubt there are many in this forum who have a better ROI at the $50s and $30s than me.

[treeofwisdom7]

[ QUOTE ]
While I think it 's okay to call this, I don't think there is a need to call this. If you had 25% or 75% of the total stacks, I would call this.

Scuba

[/ QUOTE ]

if you think you have a better chance playing the game out and trapping your opp then play it out and dont take the best of it now..

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
if you think you have a better chance playing the game out and trapping your opp then play it out and dont take the best of it now..

[/ QUOTE ]

Well see, that's why I posted the hand. To encourage this kind of discussion. Sometimes the opinion is overwhelming (as it is here), and sometimes the thread goes for 10 pages (limp vs raise with JJ UTG on level 1).

* hits the $11s *

[lehighguy]

I fold alot when I think I'm ahead too. Simply because I know I can bully villian. But I need a really good read. Since nothing was mentioned in your post its hard to draw that conclusion.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold alot when I think I'm ahead too. Simply because I know I can bully villian. But I need a really good read. Since nothing was mentioned in your post its hard to draw that conclusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I didn't have a read. If I don't post a read, assume I don't have one.

Anyway, your response here is a far cry from 'it's an easy call.'

[lehighguy]

JJ posts go on a long time because it is more playstyle dependent.

End game HU decisions tend to be very mathematical. Hence the lack of discussion.

I really interesting hand would be one were the villian minraised and your holding was more marginal. That would illicit a lot of discussion if you provided some nice reads.

[curtains]

Bigwig I'd go back to the $5s, $11s too strong for you

[lehighguy]

If I narrow the villians all-in range to:
22+,A2+,KQ,KJs

It is +EV to call (by alot - your giving up over 6% ROI by folding).
And that doesn't even count the observation that he is less likely to go all-in with AA-JJ.

Since I can conclude in 99%+ of cases villian is not tighter then the following range that's why I said it was a slam dunk. I've only met one villian in my entire SnG career that tight, and he folded AJ to a push.

[lehighguy]

There is really no need for us to argue anyway. You made the call. So obvisouly we are in agreement and you know what your doing.

[NYCNative]

PP HU = Instacall for me barring extraordinary circumstances, few of which would come up online. I won a big home game tournament a couple weeks ago when I called an all-in with deuces. Villain had AQ. He never improved and I spiked a set on the river to show off a little... /images/graemlins/smile.gif