Newbie with a flopped set

[Saborion]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Trying to learn the basics of NL. This hand came up shortly into my session and I'm looking for opinions about my flop raise.

Both the SB and MP are loose preflop. As usual? the MP isn't calling the flop bet without having some kind of hand. What "some kind" is I can only speculate about, maybe you can provide some educated guesses?

I raised the flop to sort of conceal the strength of my hand since I assume that most? players wait until the turn to raise their sets on non-scary boards like this. Am I wrong to think so? Anyway, if the SB, and hopefully the MP, do call my flop raise he/they will be pretty committed to the pot on the turn as well. Or?

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

CO ($48.25)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($75.95)</font>
<font color="#C00000">SB ($91.9)</font>
BB ($45.5)
UTG ($169.36)
MP ($48.1)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">SB (poster) raises to $2.75</font>, BB calls $2.50, UTG folds, MP calls $2.50, Hero calls $2.50.

Flop: ($12.50) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $10</font>, BB folds, MP calls $10, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $30</font>

[Allinlife]

standard

[Saborion]

[ QUOTE ]
standard

[/ QUOTE ]
So waiting until the turn to try to get more money out of MP isn't common? Or is it common, but not the most common play?
I mean, if MP has something like JQ, JK, JA, wouldn't it be nice if he hit two pair on the turn?

[Zukeman66]

I would not slowplay at this point. There is almost $30 in the pot already. No question I would push all-in here. SB probably has QQ or higher, MP might just have a J. Win the money now.

[Saborion]

[ QUOTE ]
I would not slowplay at this point. There is almost $30 in the pot already. No question I would push all-in here. SB probably has QQ or higher, MP might just have a J. Win the money now.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's about $30 in the pot and you want me to push my $70 stack? Is that really the best way to get their stacks?

"Win the money now."? I'd prefer to get at least one my opponents stack. I don't have much to be afraid of on a flop like that, so shouldn't my goal be to get one or both of them all in somehow?

[theblitz]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that really the best way to get their stacks?
"Win the money now."? I'd prefer to get at least one my opponents stack.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are not trying to get their STACK you are trying to get their MONEY. You need to weigh the risk of getting nothing against the benefit of possible profit.

Rememeber - this is not tournament play where taking someone's stack brings you nearer to the big money.

[ QUOTE ]


I don't have much to be afraid of on a flop like that

[/ QUOTE ]
No?
What will you do if a 6 or a 3 comes on the turn?

The principle is to make them pay to draw. In the end you will get called enough times to more than balance the times where they folded.

[SirArthur]

Pushing is awful here.

You played it fine though.

I might advocate a slow play, depending on my reads on opponents here.
It's a good flop to slow play here, not very draw heavy. If they'll play for their whole stack with two pair, I'd slow play, hope one hits two pair, and stack them off.

[crazygoose]

I like the raise right on the flop. A smooth call on the flop and a push on the turn will show too much strength, especially if a scare card to the other opponents falls. gh (hopefully you took both of their stacks)

[tripdad]

i think waiting until the turn would be favorable in this spot. if SB has an overpair, he may fold to the flop raise, and he certainly will with AK.

but, if he you smooth call the flop, and he has the big pair, he will bet enough to where he won't be able to bring himself to fold to your all in.

cheers!

[heretowin]

For the most part you don't want to slow play hands. Go ahead and raise them just like you did, plus being on the button might look like your on a steal and you will definitely get calls.

[MarzH05]

[ QUOTE ]
I would not slowplay at this point. There is almost $30 in the pot already. No question I would push all-in here. SB probably has QQ or higher, MP might just have a J. Win the money now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Push the flop? No way. If they have an overpair or TPTK, at best they are drawing to 2 outs. Pushing the flop gives away your hand too much, and lets them get away with their hand. Raise that flop, push the turn.

[Saborion]

[ QUOTE ]
You are not trying to get their STACK you are trying to get their MONEY.

[/ QUOTE ]
And since when doesn't their stack tontain money? I know the goal of the game is to win money, and by getting their stack that's what I will be getting, their money. On a flop like this with a set, all I can hope for is that my opponent has an overpair that he can't let go off, and thus I will get his stack.

[ QUOTE ]
No?
What will you do if a 6 or a 3 comes on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
I push. If only the preflop raiser calls my flop raise that card isn't likely to have helped him. The pot contains ~$80 and I only have ~$4x left. Easy push imo. If both the PFR and MP calls, well, PFR isn't likely to have been helped by either of those cards, and even though the MP may have made a straight (which is just a few combinations of the hands he can hold btw), I still have lots of outs. The combination of all of this doesn't really make it a tough play. Especially considering the pot size on the turn if both oppponents choose to call.

[Saborion]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

CO ($48.25)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($75.95)</font>
<font color="#C00000">SB ($91.9)</font>
BB ($45.5)
UTG ($169.36)
MP ($48.1)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">SB (poster) raises to $2.75</font>, BB calls $2.50, UTG folds, MP calls $2.50, Hero calls $2.50.

Flop: ($12.50) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $10</font>, BB folds, MP calls $10, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $30</font>, SB calls $20, MP folds.

Turn: ($82.50) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero calls $42.95 (All-In), SB calls $42.95.

River: ($168.40) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $168.40
<font color="#009B00">Main Pot: $168.40, between Hero and SB.</font> &gt; <font color="#FFFFFF">Pot won by Hero ($168.40).</font>

Results:
SB has Ah Ac (two pair, aces and jacks).
Hero has 5c 5s (full house, fives full of jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins $168.40.

[theblitz]

Great result!
Classic case of thinking that pocket Aces always win.
Keep an eye on this guy.

[fuzzbox]

Looks good to me, a great chance to stack against AA, KK, QQ, 44 or maybe AJ. Likely hands for SB are AA-JJ and maybe AK.

You get burned against JJ, but c'est la vie.

[Atropos]

You played it fine. Raising 3x the betters bet seems to extract the maximum in most cases. If the flop was more dangerous for you like JT5 with flush draw, pushing might be better...