Unimproved Slick under attack

[StellarWind]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP is very loose/passive. I don't know the blinds but they seem OK so far.

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP posts a blind of $7.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP folds, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.20 BB

[Klak]

id fold the turn. i dont think that you have oddds to go for overs and it looks like BB has a 9 or at least a small PP.

[Anders]

[ QUOTE ]
id fold the turn. i dont think that you have oddds to go for overs and it looks like BB has a 9 or at least a small PP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. If you feel that you absolutely must stick around, why not raise the turn? If you're going to be putting in two bets, it seems like it might be better to do it here.

[wheelz]

I play it the same. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
If you feel that you absolutely must stick around, why not raise the turn? If you're going to be putting in two bets, it seems like it might be better to do it here.

[/ QUOTE ]
One idea is that just calling the turn allows me to be selective about which river cards are worth calling.

Am I sure that if I get 3-bet I don't have any outs?

Am I sure that a stop-n-go will not be a bluff? This will be especially uncomfortable if another nine comes.

[spydog]

2-flush, 2-straight flop + Brick Turn + Brick River + Headsup ===Easy call down. Like really easy.

[jfresh]

[ QUOTE ]
2-flush, 2-straight flop + Brick Turn + Brick River + Headsup ===Easy call down. Like really easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

i thought that was really important. incredibly drawy flop for many broadway cards and a 2 flush... a bet could be anything. i play it the same.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I sure that if I get 3-bet I don't have any outs?


[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think you get 3bet very often at all here by a hand you have outs against.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I sure that if I get 3-bet I don't have any outs?


[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think you get 3bet very often at all here by a hand you have outs against.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, that's the beauty of the line.

Krishan

[balkii]

can someone explain to me why we want to raise the turn? I can't think of one good reason.

[Nate tha' Great]

Played well.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
can someone explain to me why we want to raise the turn? I can't think of one good reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

with this board there's a decent chance we still have the best hand. villian's flop bet could mean anything - a draw, ace high, a pure bluff - but one thing it almost certainly doesn't mean is a ten (agreed?)

so we want to get to a showdown, and this will cost 2BB - so why not invest those 2BB right there on the turn when we'll have some fold equity. we protect our hand if it's best, and might even fold some better hands.

[balkii]

what % of the time do you think a typical 6 max player folds a better hand on the turn here?

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
what % of the time do you think a typical 6 max player folds a better hand on the turn here?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think a decent amount. maybe like 10-20% depending on the opponent.

but that's only an added benefit of the raise - not even the primary purpose.

[CIncyHR]

Since you didnt rasie the flop, I think you probably fold the turn.

[ISF]

I havent read the rest of the replies but I think this is a pretty easy call down. I would need a very good read on someone to fold this. Could easily be a straight of flush draw, or some idiot getting out of line with a random ace. I would bet your good here close to 30% of the time.

[StellarWind]

BB had the ultimate draw: Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif. That gave him 21 outs and over 67% of the pot equity on the flop versus my hand. Despite all of that MHIG.

[Fantell]

So who raises this on the turn and who just calls down with it? I prefer to raise this turn.

I suppose if you can be sure that Villain will bluff again on the river then it makes sense to just flat call. If you think he'll give up on the end, then throw in a raise so you can get 2 BB's out of him when he misses. Though if he'll 3 bet with a variety of hands, probably just best to call down again.

[wheelz]

I always just call. They nearly always bluff on the river after missing anyways, so I just try to show it down as cheap as possible. You don't risk getting 3-bet by a hand you have outs against, or maybe even a worse hand... and some players might bet the river again with a worse hand after calling the turn raise on a draw and missing... you just put yourself in a tough spot. Just show it down cheap I say.

Another factor that should be considered I think is that a lot of opponents get scared with a weaker made hand here like a 9 or A3 or smaller PP and check the river, and you'll actually save a BB.