Two Pair could get me a huuuuuge pot [Archive]

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Atropos

05-29-2005, 02:45 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB ($79.5)
UTG ($116.75)
MP ($80)
CO ($98.75)
Button ($126.3)
Hero ($213.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG raises to $4, MP calls $4, CO calls $4, Button calls $4, Hero (poster) calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($21) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $5, MP folds, CO raises to $10, Button calls $10, Hero folds

Final Pot: $256.50

I feel like an [censored]. I play these suited crap hands to get into exactly this situation and then I fold /images/graemlins/frown.gif
Here is what's going on:
- UTG: very tilted, his hand range goes from nothing to JJ, I think he would push all-in against the minraise if he had overpair/even flush draw!
- CO: he didnt seem reckless, had not seen another minraise before, feared him most in this hand, was not sure if he would minraise a set with a flush draw + straight draw out there, but hey these are party idiots
- Button: Calling idiot, he would call a bad flush draw or one pair hand here...

So I have three types of actions:
a) Fold
b) Push All-in
c) Call, hope that UTG pushes all-in, see how the action develops and then call/fold depending what CO does

DoomSlice

05-29-2005, 03:04 PM

I think you realize this, but when you play hands like that to raises out of position, you can't fold when you hit hard.

Here is how I see the action:
Preflop: 4x BB raise and 3 cold callers... someone has a solid hand - probably UTG has something like AK or a pair.

Flop: Oh boy! Bottom two! However there is a flush draw out there and 4 others in the pot... I lead out here 100% of the time. Since you didn't, we continue. UTG makes a 1/4 pot sized bet? He's either sitting pretty or just plain sucks at poker... you should know better. In my opinion the min-reraise means almost nothing here since the initial bet was so small, and I reraise it to $25 here most of the time and MAYBE (because by the way the hand is playing out it looks like overpair vs draw or nothing) fold to a push by UTG.

DoubleDown

05-29-2005, 03:08 PM

Lead out for $20 on this flop. This is why you played 57s- it was to hit a flop like this.

I am wondering if a C/R on the flop could be argued for if you are certain to get a bet from UTG, thus trapping $$ into the pot for you when you make the C/R.

Personally, I would lead the flop for full pot ... hopefully others can comment if a C/R might be better (if you can be sure of a continuation bet from UTG)

interested to hear other responses

DoubleDown

05-29-2005, 03:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...In my opinion the min-reraise means almost nothing here since the initial bet was so small, and I reraise it to $25 ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that a $25 re-raise is enough... by the time the betting gets back to you there is already $45 in the pot ... making it $25 to go will only be $20 more for UTG, and $15 more for LP players. They will be very well priced in to call on their draws.

I think if I was going to go for a C/R here it would have to be closer to ~$55-60 or so.

Atropos

05-29-2005, 03:24 PM

Because the flop is so draw-heavy and I will be out of position I thought this was an all-in or fold decision. I would not be too unhappy to take the pot right there... Do you think this is an all-in push though there is a minraiser involved?

FreakDaddy

05-29-2005, 03:27 PM

Yeah, this is a push dude. You're likely against over pair or AJs. Look at your read and then do you think it's a possibility that CO recognized this about UTG and called with top pair, or even a flush draw?

Come on dude, get in there and play poker. This is beyond weak tight. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that because you already see it it, but... come on.

heretowin

05-29-2005, 03:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am wondering if a C/R on the flop could be argued for if you are certain to get a bet from UTG, thus trapping $$ into the pot for you when you make the C/R.

[/ QUOTE ]
I myself rarely use the C/R, however this could be one of the prime opportunities to do it. If you can get a bet from UTG then this will work fine.
But, I would go ahead and re-raise the flop to 60.

Atropos

05-29-2005, 03:36 PM

Yes next time I push this. The hand just makes me sad:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB ($79.5)
UTG ($116.75)
MP ($80)
CO ($98.75)
Button ($126.3)
Hero ($213.35)

Flop: ($21) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $5, MP folds, CO raises to $10, Button calls $10, Hero folds, UTG raises to $35, CO folds, Button calls $25.

Turn: ($101) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG calls $77.75 (All-In), Button calls $77.75.

River: ($256.50) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $256.50

Results in white below: 
UTG has 3d Qd (high card, ace).
Button has Kd 2d (one pair, twos).
Outcome: Button wins $256.50.

TexArcher

05-29-2005, 03:52 PM

I'm all in on that flop ten times out of ten. I can't fold to that small raise, I go all in and I'm probably going to isolate him heads up while I'm most likely well ahead or he's going to give me the pot right there. All in and I don't look back.

Why even call four times the BB if you're not going to play two pair on the flop?