Aint No Holla Back Girl

[Jason Strasser]

Oooooh its my shhh.

Two 5-10 stars hands vs Grandiose.

Grandiose is very aggressive but one of the better players at the table. Unlike many stars players, he can be annoying to deal with out of position.

First hand he opens from the CO I call with 77 and so do two EP limpers and the BB. Flop comes QJ7 Q7 are clubs. Checks around. Turn comes 2s, putting two spades on board. He bets 150, I make it 500 with 1600 behind and fold to his all in.

Hand two. He opens I call with JJ in the blinds. Flop comes 7 high with two clubs. I check, he pots, I call. Turn comes a six pairing the board but no club. check check. Turn comes an offsuit king. I check and call a pot sized bet.

-Jason

[Roman]

how do u fold 77 in hand 1?

[captZEEbo1]

what range of hands does he raise with preflop? (you say aggressive, but I wonder if that means postflop or preflop)

[BluffTHIS!]

Hand #1: In a multiway pot with a big drawing board, I would ALWAYS bet or raise with bottom set to see where I was and narrow the field. Mulitway hands are bad spots to be trapping. Even if he has AA/KK it is unlikely he would reraise you fearing QJs. As to what actually occurred, I'm with Doyle in his feeling that it is virtually impossible to get away from a set in a pot THAT WAS ORIGINALLY RAISED.

Hand #2: You should have bet the turn in order not to give a player with overcards a free card to hit six outs. Since he checked behind on the turn, he is presumably going to do so again should another rag fall and he is not helped, thus only allowing you to lose the pot by giving a free card but make no more money from him if you either bet and he folds or he checks behind on the river.

The bottom line since you feel he is difficult to play out of position, is that you are playing scared with him in those spots which will only encourage him to be more aggressive with you.

[RoboRob]

[ QUOTE ]
how do u fold 77 in hand 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

[BPPoker]

Not sure I like the fold in hand 1. Would he slow play QQ or JJ here?? There seems to be too many draw out there for him to give a free card. Too many cards complete flushes and straights. Especially if he is an aggressive player after the flop it seems that he would bet out with his big hand to get paid off given his table image. I would have called his all in.

[Roswell]

On Hand 1 you should at least bet on that flop. Too many turn cards either hurt you or kill your action.

I don't think I could fold to the all-in. QJ is a possible holding for him, although he should have bet the flop. However, how about 22? He might have spiked the low set on the turn. I don't see how you can fold.

[emil3000]

How in hell could he check a hand that beat you on the flop in hand 1? He's good isn't he? Turn changes nothing. I don't know what he might have but I can't believe it's better than your hand. 22 fits, like someone said. I call.

[radioheadfan]

So you gave him credit for JJ/QQ in hand 1? He slowplayed a good set with an aggressive image and lots of players in the pot on one of the draw-heaviest boards imaginable? No (at least not if he's good). Looks like he has QJ or 22.

Why didn't you lead the flop in hand 1? The PF raiser is probably smart enough to not bluff a field of players that big if he completely whiffed on the flop.

I call on hand 1 and expect to win. If he shows me QQ or JJ I'd be VERY surprised...

Hand 2: Flop is good. I like leading the turn for 1/2 - 3/4 pot. River call is ok given how you played it. Why do you think he bet the FULL pot there? Wierd......

[Dr. Strangelove]

How can you make any kind of difficult laydown against Grandiose? Has he toned down his penchant for retarded bluffs? I instacall in hand 1 and play it the same in hand 2.

[diddle]

[ QUOTE ]
First hand he opens from the CO I call with 77 and so do two EP limpers and the BB. Flop comes QJ7 Q7 are clubs. Checks around. Turn comes 2s, putting two spades on board. He bets 150, I make it 500 with 1600 behind and fold to his all in.


[/ QUOTE ]

I sincerely hope this is a joke post like Zeejustin's.

[AZK]

In hand 1 I really think you need to bet.

Hand 2: Hypothetically speaking, if he bet the turn, what would your play have been? I like the river call.

[technologic]

don't you wish you could switch your holdings for these hands...

i'm really curious as i'm sure others are to see why you folded the sevens here.

[creedofhubris]

Against all but the tightest I go down with the set in hand #1.

Hand #2, fine.

[Prevaricator]

[ QUOTE ]
So you gave him credit for JJ/QQ in hand 1? He slowplayed a good set with an aggressive image and lots of players in the pot on one of the draw-heaviest boards imaginable? No (at least not if he's good). Looks like he has QJ or 22.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you not going to give him credit for a flopped set because he didn't bet the flop, but THEN say that QJ which is of almost the same value is something he WOULD check the flop with, this is inconsistent. Against Grandiose what Jason did I think is okay because the stacks are pretty deep and I don't think Grandiose is going to push the turn with less than a big set as a made hand, I think he doesnt go too crazy with 22 but maybe with an aggro image he expects to get action w worse hands. He could also have something like AKs or whatever, some kind of big draw on the turn, but I don't think he pushes with a made hand worse than 77.

[slickpoppa]

How many players were dealt into the hand?

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2, fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Creed, I respect your posts very much and was wondering why you think this. Granted we all are loathe to build pots out of position against aggressive players, but it seems to me that if the opponent respected the OP's play at all, then betting the turn around 1/2-3/4 pot would protect against overcards which may lose the pot plus not get played back at too often with the board pairing low and the OP's hand being a mystery to his opponent. All he is teaching this opponent is that when he has position on the OP he can take all the free cards he likes while not risking a checkraise, but also steal/value bet the river at will also. Although as the hand was played I call the river as well, I wouldn't like it. Just curious to see why you would not bet in front on the turn?

[bobneptune]

Hand #1: In a multiway pot with a big drawing board, I would ALWAYS bet or raise with bottom set to see where I was and narrow the field. Mulitway hands are bad spots to be trapping. Even if he has AA/KK it is unlikely he would reraise you fearing QJs. As to what actually occurred, I'm with Doyle in his feeling that it is virtually impossible to get away from a set in a pot THAT WAS ORIGINALLY RAISED.

>>>>BN

isn't it asking for trouble to slowplay a set on a board with multi-draws, essentially giving the 3 opponents a free draw at you ???

i can think of many more hands an agressive player (or any player for that matter) could be on other than QQ or JJ from the cut off with only 2 limpers in front of him.

i just think this a pretty good spot to gamble. if you got this situation a thousand times, i think you'd be a big winner net.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
He bets 150, I make it 500 with 1600 behind and fold to his all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sh*t is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S

[BobboFitos]

i like your avatar of the big titted woman better

[ QUOTE ]
First hand he opens from the CO I call with 77 and so do two EP limpers and the BB. Flop comes QJ7 Q7 are clubs. Checks around. Turn comes 2s, putting two spades on board. He bets 150, I make it 500 with 1600 behind and fold to his all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strange play. Kinda fishy.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand #2, fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Creed, I respect your posts very much and was wondering why you think this. Granted we all are loathe to build pots out of position against aggressive players, but it seems to me that if the opponent respected the OP's play at all, then betting the turn around 1/2-3/4 pot would protect against overcards which may lose the pot plus not get played back at too often with the board pairing low and the OP's hand being a mystery to his opponent. All he is teaching this opponent is that when he has position on the OP he can take all the free cards he likes while not risking a checkraise, but also steal/value bet the river at will also. Although as the hand was played I call the river as well, I wouldn't like it. Just curious to see why you would not bet in front on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting the turn may get bluff-raised huge, which would be disastrous because hero would have to drop what might be best hand.

One possible turn line is checking planning to checkraise. That, or checkraising the flop or reraising preflop are all decent lines, depending on how much ability villain has to pull big bluffs. This villain has quite a lot of ability, so I like check calling to give him rope.

But really, with JJ and no set I'm not looking to play a big pot, and any line that gets to showdown cheap is fine.

[ZeeJustin]

These posts are a pain to read. Try and make things more clear next time.

[ QUOTE ]
First hand he opens from the CO I call with 77 and so do two EP limpers and the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

What position are you in? Apparently, you act after the CO, and before the EP limpers, who happen to act before the BB? I'll just assume you're the button.

I don't like your flop check on this board. How do you play if an A, K, T or club turns and someone starts showing aggression? Bet the flop, and bet big.

As for the fold, you didn't mention his stack which is crucial. However, even if he had you covered (meaning 2.1k or more, right?) I think I would still call. For reasons already said, it doesn't seem like he would check QQ or JJ on the flop. The only logical reason for him to check is if he thinks you are super aggro and will auto bet the flop, but if you're checking bottom set, that can't be the case.

Hand 2 I like to checkraise the flop. On the (first) turn card, I think the way you played it a check is good. On the (second) turn card, I do like your call. In this form of holdem, will there be a 6th community card? If so, I don't like the call on the (second) turn, because he is likely to fire another barrel on the river.

[Ulysses]

Hand 1 I call. Hand 2 I checkraise the flop. Having check-called the flop, I bet the turn.

[RYL]

[ QUOTE ]
Oooooh its my shhh.

Two 5-10 stars hands vs Grandiose.

Grandiose is very aggressive but one of the better players at the table. Unlike many stars players, he can be annoying to deal with out of position.

First hand he opens from the CO I call with 77 and so do two EP limpers and the BB. Flop comes QJ7 Q7 are clubs. Checks around. Turn comes 2s, putting two spades on board. He bets 150, I make it 500 with 1600 behind and fold to his all in.

Hand two. He opens I call with JJ in the blinds. Flop comes 7 high with two clubs. I check, he pots, I call. Turn comes a six pairing the board but no club. check check. Turn comes an offsuit king. I check and call a pot sized bet.

-Jason

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have done the same for the second hand.