Hand from book, what if it happened on Party?

[mrwatson23]

This hand is from the new book "How Good is Your Limit Hold'em." What if it happened in the Party 15-30?

You are in the sb with Ac 9c. It is folded to the cutoff, who is loose pre-flop, but plays well post-flop. He limps, the button folds. It's on you.

Question 1: Do you (a) fold; (b) call; (c) raise?

You raise, the big blind, who is soft and weak, calls, so does the cutoff.

Flop is 9h 7d 5c.

Question 2: Do you (a) check, planning to call; (b) check, planning to raise; (c) bet?

You bet, bb calls, cutoff raises.

Question 3: Do you (a) fold; (b) call; (c) raise?

You raise, the bb thinks and then calls, the cutoff caps the betting.

Question 4: Do you (a) fold; (b) call?

Turn is 9h 7d 5c 2h. You hold Ac 9c.

Question 5: Do you (a) check; (b) bet?

You check, the bb checks, the cutoff bets.

Question 6: Do you (a) fold; (b) call; (c) raise?

You fold.

Book answers to questions:

1. c (raise)
2. c (bet)
3. c (raise)
4. b (call)
5. a (check)
6. a (fold)

How do you like those answers?

[philnewall]

I flat call the flop raise and c/r a safe turn. is this book by Stewart Reuben? I thought his pot limit holdem book was absolute rubbish, as was his sections in Ciaffone's book.

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
I flat call the flop raise and c/r a safe turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a poor choice. 3-betting gives you an excellent chance to knock out overcards in the BB and get it heads up with a player drawing to 3-outs (+ 2 outs for a big 2nd best hand). Easy 3-bet.

-Eric

[mrwatson23]

The book is by Byron Jacobs with Jim Brier. I would probably lead at the turn, thinking that if the cutoff had a monster he would just call my three-bet on the flop, expecting me to lead the turn so he could raise it then.

[emil3000]

On Party 15, you can't fold the turn, right? More a question of whether to call or raise, right? I too think it's an easy threebet on the flop.

[kurosh]

I play it the same except for the turn. There is no way in hell I'm folding.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
You are in the sb with Ac 9c. It is folded to the cutoff, who is loose pre-flop, but plays well post-flop. He limps, the button folds. It's on you.

Question 1: Do you (a) fold; (b) call; (c) raise?

You raise, the big blind, who is soft and weak, calls, so does the cutoff.

[/ QUOTE ]

a) fold. Loose players in 15/30 are mostly LAG's he probably limped because he want action, it a trap and your opponent has AA/KK.

[mike l.]

horrid answers. even if youre not on party 15 that's just an idiotic awful fold on the turn. your opponent cant have an overpair, cant have a pocket pair for a set, could have 97 but could also have A9, K9, Q9, or J9. it's right to slow down once it's capped on the turn but folding is so so so bad.

what clown wrote this book?

[Nate tha' Great]

I can't believe the book has you folding on the turn. I was going to buy that book too.

[golferbrent]

Interesting questions:

I play everything the same except the fold on the turn. That may be the worst piece of advice ever. The only concern about whether or not you have the best hand is whether the C/O can limp with a big hand like K-K. That would be the only hand that would concern me.

He would not limp with q-q and since you have an A in your hand that would greatly reduce odds of A-A. The only hand of concern would be K-K. Even if opponent has said hand... you still can not fold the turn.

You have a hand that you need to take to showdown. The only question is not whether to fold on the turn, but to call or raise on the turn. In a live game I would feel comfortable with the call down. In a party 15... I think you need to put in a raise and not fold to a 3-bet.

FOLDING IS NOT AN OPTION!!

[James282]

Raising the turn and having to call another three bet is putting in too much action, IMO.
-James

[oreogod]

Player description from the book:

You are in SB. Bladerunner is in CO, is a untutored natural player. His is loose-preflop and seems to have very little idea of preflop strat and hand values. He plays well post flop. Pacman is a soft, weak plater, who makes typical soft errors, playing inferior cards and then calling along when he gets a modest piece of the flop.


The books reasons for folding:

There is now 400 in the pot and it costs u 40 to call. On a good day, you may have five outs with any ace or 9, which would justify a call. The trouble is that these outs may not win for you. It is possible that you are up against a made straight in which case u are drawing dead. You could also be up against a set...if BladeRunner (name of the bettor) has 9-7 your only out is an ace. The odds are not there to chase it. One final consideration is Pacman (other player) who has spent the entire time limping along, is still in the pot and you cannot be sure what he has. Its time to abadon ship.

[Subfallen]

Why raise pre-flop? BB is loose, won't fold, and will go too far with his hand anyways if we flop good. If we miss the flop, we've already given away our hand somewhat and decent-playing CO can punish us with position.

Ok, the turn. What sort of hands can CO limp w/o limp-re-raising? Weird, but 97s, 55, 75s are all within reason. Best case we have 8 outs. Worst case we have no outs. Getting 10-1 I feel like we have to call the turn, but I don't have any sort of plan for the river. /images/graemlins/frown.gif Our effective odds for seeing showdown could be as bad as 6.5-1, and unless we're good here a nice amount of the time, this is unacceptable.

Damn. Plz elaborate people.

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
On a good day, you may have five outs...

[/ QUOTE ]

You may also have 3/4 of the deck.

Terrible fold.

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
You may also have 3/4 of the deck.

Terrible fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying CO can have a draw here...if BB is "thinking and calling" 4 bets on the flop, do you not think he is planning on showing down? In that case, shouldn't a decent-playing CO go ahead a take the free card since his hand has no showdown value?