mdlm
12-17-2002, 11:22 PM
Several well known poker authors and players have discussed the differences between Internet poker and B&M poker.
To me, there seem to be two huge differences. First, changing tables at a B&M casino is very difficult compared to changing tables on the Internet. On the Internet not only is it possible to change tables, it is easy to change casinos. Just getting a table at a B&M casino can easily take 30 minutes while on the Internet it rarely takes more than five minutes. This wasted time should be included in EV comparisons between B&M and Internet poker.
The second huge difference is the free money available via promotions on the Internet. I think it is easy for a low limit player to increase their EV per hour by 20% and I would not be surprised if there are players who increase their EV by 100% by taking advantage of promotions. Nothing similar exists for B&M play.
I recently learned that promo creation is a science. There is a firm called Lodging and Gaming Systems which has a software system called Casino Player Tracking which tracks players, trips, theoretical wins, total money wagered, etc.
There is a competing product from International Game Technology which keeps tracks of player ratings “from all sources – tables, slots, Poker, etc.” It lets the user “track and evaluate pit rating or automatic slot ratings.”
Some very smart people seem to have analyzed the value of comps. This is from Urbino (http://www.urbino.net/v1/) : “The real profitability of operating a premium player program may be distorted by the manner in which complimentary costs are handled in accounting terms. If the retail cost of every complimentary (hard or soft) is accrued against the program then that process may negatively impact on the program if the provision of soft complimentaries is a marketing tool.”
I even found a 54 page PowerPoint presentation at www.jimkilby.net/Files/Class%20Notes/ (http://www.jimkilby.net/Files/Class%20Notes/) 334-5a%20Player%20Rating.ppt on “Player Rating Systems.” It says that the information captured in a rating includes “average bet, time played, win/loss, maybe skill level” and says that one of the problems with capturing data is “identifying player and spelling name correctly.” Most interestingly, it then gives the comp requirements at various casinos including the Flamingo Hilton, the Mirage, the Stardust, and Ballys. Stardust seems to have the best deal.
It then goes on to discuss rule changes (e.g., single deck blackjack) as a marketing tool and notes that “Customer Base MUST be educated enough to see benefit of rule change.”
In short, I think that taking advantage of comps/promos is a skill that every Internet player who wants to maximize his EV needs to master.
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Comments on Comments
Homer J. Simpson said that he doesn’t understand why discovering inconsistencies in Jones is one of my goals. I want to test myself to make sure that I have a deep understanding of what I am reading. Finding errors is the best way I know to demonstrate understanding, short of playing real money poker.
Lost Wages says that I am wasting my time trying to find some undiscovered secret to winning poker. What I am doing is studying and trying to understand what I am reading and applying it to some play money games. I then post my ideas here and get your feedback. As an aside, I do think that there is a lot of information regarding poker that has not been published. For example, last week I asked on the General Theory forum if face up poker (poker with the hands dealt face up) had been solved and I did not get a single coherent reply.
In analyzing a hand I gave last week pudley4 says that it is a “good fold” while Easy E says that I should have “raised, not folded.” This illustrates the importance of being able to determine the truth in poker. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
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Goal Update
This past week, I spent approximately 20 hours on poker: 7.25 hours playing PokerPages tournaments, 5 hours on 2+2, and 7.75 hours at TotalPoker.
I did not spend any extra money this week. I have spent a total of $438.46 out of my $1000 budget.
An update on each of the four goals (which are to be accomplished by 3/30/03):
1. Read and study Jones’ “Winning Low Limit Hold ’Em”
I look at Jones while playing and think I may have found some holes in his description of how to defend the blinds.
2. Beat Acespade
Goal Completed on 11/5/02.
Over a period of 100 hours (3600 hands) I beat Acespade’s best lineup at the rate of over 4 BB/hr.
3. Beat Masque World Series of Poker
Goal Completed on 11/17/02
After playing Masque WSOP dozens of time I finally became the Masque WSOP Champion.
4. PokerPages 85% rating in one calendar month playing 20 tournaments
My strong tournament play continued this past week. I played in two tournaments and finished #6 out of 100 and #6 out of 85. My current rating is 88.55%.
To me, there seem to be two huge differences. First, changing tables at a B&M casino is very difficult compared to changing tables on the Internet. On the Internet not only is it possible to change tables, it is easy to change casinos. Just getting a table at a B&M casino can easily take 30 minutes while on the Internet it rarely takes more than five minutes. This wasted time should be included in EV comparisons between B&M and Internet poker.
The second huge difference is the free money available via promotions on the Internet. I think it is easy for a low limit player to increase their EV per hour by 20% and I would not be surprised if there are players who increase their EV by 100% by taking advantage of promotions. Nothing similar exists for B&M play.
I recently learned that promo creation is a science. There is a firm called Lodging and Gaming Systems which has a software system called Casino Player Tracking which tracks players, trips, theoretical wins, total money wagered, etc.
There is a competing product from International Game Technology which keeps tracks of player ratings “from all sources – tables, slots, Poker, etc.” It lets the user “track and evaluate pit rating or automatic slot ratings.”
Some very smart people seem to have analyzed the value of comps. This is from Urbino (http://www.urbino.net/v1/) : “The real profitability of operating a premium player program may be distorted by the manner in which complimentary costs are handled in accounting terms. If the retail cost of every complimentary (hard or soft) is accrued against the program then that process may negatively impact on the program if the provision of soft complimentaries is a marketing tool.”
I even found a 54 page PowerPoint presentation at www.jimkilby.net/Files/Class%20Notes/ (http://www.jimkilby.net/Files/Class%20Notes/) 334-5a%20Player%20Rating.ppt on “Player Rating Systems.” It says that the information captured in a rating includes “average bet, time played, win/loss, maybe skill level” and says that one of the problems with capturing data is “identifying player and spelling name correctly.” Most interestingly, it then gives the comp requirements at various casinos including the Flamingo Hilton, the Mirage, the Stardust, and Ballys. Stardust seems to have the best deal.
It then goes on to discuss rule changes (e.g., single deck blackjack) as a marketing tool and notes that “Customer Base MUST be educated enough to see benefit of rule change.”
In short, I think that taking advantage of comps/promos is a skill that every Internet player who wants to maximize his EV needs to master.
==>
Comments on Comments
Homer J. Simpson said that he doesn’t understand why discovering inconsistencies in Jones is one of my goals. I want to test myself to make sure that I have a deep understanding of what I am reading. Finding errors is the best way I know to demonstrate understanding, short of playing real money poker.
Lost Wages says that I am wasting my time trying to find some undiscovered secret to winning poker. What I am doing is studying and trying to understand what I am reading and applying it to some play money games. I then post my ideas here and get your feedback. As an aside, I do think that there is a lot of information regarding poker that has not been published. For example, last week I asked on the General Theory forum if face up poker (poker with the hands dealt face up) had been solved and I did not get a single coherent reply.
In analyzing a hand I gave last week pudley4 says that it is a “good fold” while Easy E says that I should have “raised, not folded.” This illustrates the importance of being able to determine the truth in poker. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
==>
Goal Update
This past week, I spent approximately 20 hours on poker: 7.25 hours playing PokerPages tournaments, 5 hours on 2+2, and 7.75 hours at TotalPoker.
I did not spend any extra money this week. I have spent a total of $438.46 out of my $1000 budget.
An update on each of the four goals (which are to be accomplished by 3/30/03):
1. Read and study Jones’ “Winning Low Limit Hold ’Em”
I look at Jones while playing and think I may have found some holes in his description of how to defend the blinds.
2. Beat Acespade
Goal Completed on 11/5/02.
Over a period of 100 hours (3600 hands) I beat Acespade’s best lineup at the rate of over 4 BB/hr.
3. Beat Masque World Series of Poker
Goal Completed on 11/17/02
After playing Masque WSOP dozens of time I finally became the Masque WSOP Champion.
4. PokerPages 85% rating in one calendar month playing 20 tournaments
My strong tournament play continued this past week. I played in two tournaments and finished #6 out of 100 and #6 out of 85. My current rating is 88.55%.