Quick Preflop Question

[istewart]

Party $.5/1

I think I'm too tight in the blinds.

4 players limp to you in the SB. The BB is like 67/0, and all the limpers are passive as well.

You're getting 11:1 on a complete, what are you completing here? Or, what are you NOT completing here?

I folded Q8 a minute ago and was pretty sure completing would have been profitable.

[MrWookie47]

You're looking for stuff that plays well multiway. I don't think Q8o meets that criterion. In this situation, and two sooted is good. If you're looking to add more, I'd add T9o and 98o, maybe 65o+ if you're grjr. Sure, Q8o is a favorite against those two hands I just listed, but if you hit a Q, you can't be all that excited about it in this large field. You're very succeptable to overcards, and you might be dominated. You'd have to play Q8o looking for 2pair or trips. OTOH, with 98o and T9o, you're playing for 2pair, trips, and more possible striaghts.

[grjr]

Just for the record, even I fold Q8o in the SB. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Q9o is another story.

[ClaytonN]

Wookie and I seem to be agreeing a lot lately.

I only complete with stuff that works well in large pots against a lot of opponents


In other words, T9 is a helluva lot better than K5

[MrWookie47]

I wasn't accusing you of completing Q8o, but rather 65o. You able to turn a profit on that one?

[grjr]

Ok. Here is what's working for me (and I'm -0.06 in the SB).

When people tell you to play any two suited; don't listen. Unless everyone at the table has limped in first. Even then I'm not so sure. Here are my good suited hands:

54s+
97s+ I like to play 86s but I've lost 18 straight hands with it.
T3s+
Jxs
Qxs
Kxs
Axs

If you have a lot of limpers you might think about loosening up on the mid-suited one-gaps and two-gaps but I'm not sure there's a lot of profit there.

Here are the offsuit hands:

Any pair
T9o+
QTo+
Q90+
K9o+
Axo

I'll call most raises with pairs, mid-suited connectors+, and J9s+.

Even though I've done well in the SB I've still lost a lot of money with all the suited and non-suited hands that aren't listed above (93s, 32s,87o...). If I hadn't played those I would be very close to breaking even for the SB. I intend to cut them all out fron now on.

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't accusing you of completing Q8o, but rather 65o. You able to turn a profit on that one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not I've never played 65o from the SB (surprised me too). 76o and 87o are BIG losers though. Just checked the BB and 65o is -0.47 so it's basically just the same as folding it preflop.

[aK13]

If theres 4 limpers, I'm completing mid connectors, and lots of suited cards:
56o+
97o+
A,K,Q,Jx suited
lots of gapped suited connectors (T7s, 64s)

If there's only like 2 limpers, I will complete with:
Ax
K7+
Q8+
J9+
some mid suited connectors (86s, 65s)

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't accusing you of completing Q8o, but rather 65o. You able to turn a profit on that one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not I've never played 65o from the SB (surprised me too). 76o and 87o are BIG losers though. Just checked the BB and 65o is -0.47 so it's basically just the same as folding it preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Peter_Rus is probably the best blind defender on 2+2. He plays almost ATC from the blinds and his net is -.42 (instead of -.50 from folding) -- point being, if you can save .03 in the BB every time, this is actually a relatively large gain. Of course, he would mop the floor with us postflop, and he also plays at 15/30+ which means the people he plays against have bigger potentials to fold. If he "hits any part of the flop" he plays super aggressive (in his mind, if he has 75o and board is J84, this is "hitting the board"). However, he has said that he is still experimenting with his blind defense, as his opponents will probably notice that his blind completion is very high, and might lose some of his edge in the long run compared to now.

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't accusing you of completing Q8o, but rather 65o. You able to turn a profit on that one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not I've never played 65o from the SB (surprised me too). 76o and 87o are BIG losers though. Just checked the BB and 65o is -0.47 so it's basically just the same as folding it preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Peter_Rus is probably the best blind defender on 2+2. He plays almost ATC from the blinds and his net is -.42 (instead of -.50 from folding) -- point being, if you can save .03 in the BB every time, this is actually a relatively large gain. Of course, he would mop the floor with us postflop, and he also plays at 15/30+ which means the people he plays against have bigger potentials to fold. If he "hits any part of the flop" he plays super aggressive (in his mind, if he has 75o and board is J84, this is "hitting the board"). However, he has said that he is still experimenting with his blind defense, as his opponents will probably notice that his blind completion is very high, and might lose some of his edge in the long run compared to now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not understanding the -.42 being a good figure. I'm -0.05 from the BB and -0.06 from the SB. Of course I don't play 15/30 either.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't accusing you of completing Q8o, but rather 65o. You able to turn a profit on that one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not I've never played 65o from the SB (surprised me too). 76o and 87o are BIG losers though. Just checked the BB and 65o is -0.47 so it's basically just the same as folding it preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Peter_Rus is probably the best blind defender on 2+2. He plays almost ATC from the blinds and his net is -.42 (instead of -.50 from folding) -- point being, if you can save .03 in the BB every time, this is actually a relatively large gain. Of course, he would mop the floor with us postflop, and he also plays at 15/30+ which means the people he plays against have bigger potentials to fold. If he "hits any part of the flop" he plays super aggressive (in his mind, if he has 75o and board is J84, this is "hitting the board"). However, he has said that he is still experimenting with his blind defense, as his opponents will probably notice that his blind completion is very high, and might lose some of his edge in the long run compared to now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not understanding the -.42 being a good figure. I'm -0.05 from the BB and -0.06 from the SB. Of course I don't play 15/30 either.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we are folding every BB when raised, then we will be losing -.50 BB/hand. Peter_Rus is defending with his personal set of starting hands, and is only losing -.42 BB/hand when raised preflop. I think your stats may be including when BB gets a free look at the flop.

At least this is my understanding of what he's saying -- his poor english is confusing -_-.

EDIT: I hope some of the carpal tunnels / pooh-bahs who troll more than me can correct or elaborate further.

[grjr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't accusing you of completing Q8o, but rather 65o. You able to turn a profit on that one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not I've never played 65o from the SB (surprised me too). 76o and 87o are BIG losers though. Just checked the BB and 65o is -0.47 so it's basically just the same as folding it preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Peter_Rus is probably the best blind defender on 2+2. He plays almost ATC from the blinds and his net is -.42 (instead of -.50 from folding) -- point being, if you can save .03 in the BB every time, this is actually a relatively large gain. Of course, he would mop the floor with us postflop, and he also plays at 15/30+ which means the people he plays against have bigger potentials to fold. If he "hits any part of the flop" he plays super aggressive (in his mind, if he has 75o and board is J84, this is "hitting the board"). However, he has said that he is still experimenting with his blind defense, as his opponents will probably notice that his blind completion is very high, and might lose some of his edge in the long run compared to now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not understanding the -.42 being a good figure. I'm -0.05 from the BB and -0.06 from the SB. Of course I don't play 15/30 either.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we are folding every BB when raised, then we will be losing -.50 BB/hand. Peter_Rus is defending with his personal set of starting hands, and is only losing -.42 BB/hand when raised preflop. I think your stats may be including when BB gets a free look at the flop.

At least this is my understanding of what he's saying -- his poor english is confusing -_-.

EDIT: I hope some of the carpal tunnels / pooh-bahs who troll more than me can correct or elaborate further.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't figure out a way to filter PT to show the total of the BB when calling, reraising, and folding to raises.

I've called raises 774 times for a net of +$94.27 and +0.12BB/hand. I've folded 1171 times for a loss of -$585.50. So in 1945 hands I've lost -$491.23 for a BB/hand of -0.25. The problem is this doesn't count the times I've reraised from the BB and I can't find anyway to figure that out.

Does anyone know a way to filter PT for only the hands you have 3-bet or 4-bet?