Playing the suited image hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Atropos

05-28-2005, 06:39 PM

I'm onetabling therefore I think I can try many things out and they could be quite profitable, because my reads on the average players are very very good in most situations. However I sometimes have problems playing my "mix it up" preflop raise hands postflop, especially when I get a mighty flush draw:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($46.05)
BB ($208.88)
UTG ($73.12)
MP ($35)
CO ($212.05)
Hero ($245.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3, SB (poster) calls $2.50, BB calls $2, MP calls $2.

Flop: ($12) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $6, SB calls $6, BB folds, MP folds.

Turn: ($24) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($24) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB calls $15.

Final Pot: $54

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($166)
SB ($97)
BB ($98.65)
UTG ($225.25)
Hero ($264.45)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, SB (poster) calls $3.50, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $7.5, SB calls $7.50, BB folds.

Turn: ($27) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($27) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets $25, Hero calls $25.

Final Pot: $77

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($50.55)
BB ($214.08)
UTG ($72.77)
MP ($242.9)
CO ($213.55)
Hero ($235.2)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, Hero calls $1, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($3) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $3, SB calls $3, BB calls $3.

River: ($12) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $12

It's easy to see that my general understanding of how to play draws is very weak. My other question would be what hands are best for mixing up preflop play? Probably low suited hands, because if your raise gets called you have the whole low half of the deck for you, while your opponent sometimes has to fold even if he hits the high half.

SirArthur

05-28-2005, 06:56 PM

Fold preflop in both hands.

Why are you raising Q/3 on the button? Why are you playing 9/2 in MP, & why are you raising it?

You'll go broke real fast with plays like this. Be patient, wait for better hands.

Raise the river in hand two. I don't mind the slow play on the turn much, but raise that river with your flush.

Atropos

05-28-2005, 07:03 PM

"Why are you raising Q/3 on the button? Why are you playing 9/2 in MP, & why are you raising it?"

Why not? If you are not overdoing it it's only marginal -EV since your opponents will put you on a good hand and fold every missed flop to your continuation bet. If I show one of these down I will have a very profitable image to play with. I just dont want to be too predictable, like a J92 flop comes and opponent's AA is totally safe...

"Raise the river in hand two."

Why should I raise? I thought the decision was rather if I should call. Which better hands would fold to a raise? Dont think a better flush would fold, a full house would push me all-in.

DoomSlice

05-28-2005, 09:59 PM

The hands from the button are fine as far as preflop goes, I try to get in as many hands on the button as possible in 6-max too, but the MP 9 2 hand just isn't worth it.

Hand 1:
Bet the turn, check the river.

Hand 2:
Bet the turn, bet or call the river.

Hand 3:
Why no river bet?

Malachii

05-29-2005, 12:05 AM

Hand 1, checking the turn is okay, but check the river too. Betting turn is fine also.

Hand 2 should be folded preflop. If you're going to play garbage, play it in late position.

Hand 3 I would raise or fold it preflop. I don't get not betting the river on hand 3.

Alex/Mugaaz

05-29-2005, 01:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"Why are you raising Q/3 on the button? Why are you playing 9/2 in MP, & why are you raising it?"

Why not? If you are not overdoing it it's only marginal -EV since your opponents will put you on a good hand and fold every missed flop to your continuation bet. If I show one of these down I will have a very profitable image to play with. I just dont want to be too predictable, like a J92 flop comes and opponent's AA is totally safe...

"Raise the river in hand two."

Why should I raise? I thought the decision was rather if I should call. Which better hands would fold to a raise? Dont think a better flush would fold, a full house would push me all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Showdown these intentionally image building hands, or make sure you never show them and only use it as a chance to steal. You can't do both, this is an either/or.

rsq

05-29-2005, 01:32 AM

Please explain your logic - I do not understand why you would not just fold hand 3.

thx

stu-unger

05-29-2005, 01:47 AM

i think it a sound play to raise with rags given the reasons u gave but u have to know how to play them on the flop and post flop to make them worth it. in the first hand im not sure why u didnt bet the turn when u picked up the additional outs but, it's not that that bad if your checking your non flush river. in the second hand u have to continue on the turn even though u get no action, and on the river a raise serves no purpose but i think u should call. and on the last hand u have to be more aggressive if they fold they fold but do u think they really put u on 4-5?? as to what hand to for raises to mix up your game i like connectors mainly the suited kind and theres no need to over do it once every 4 or 5 orbits is fine and realize when u do show one down the purpose of this has been achieved and its time to be more selective.

spoohunter

05-29-2005, 03:06 AM

I would probably raise more preflop on hand one, if I raised it. $4 or $5.

I also don't bet half the pot on draw heavy flops, so I would have bet the full pot if I decided to bet that flop.

I can't see a better hand folding on the river, and there aren't very many worse hands to call, so I like the check behind.

Hand #2 : why in the world would you check the turn?

Hand #3 : This is a clear river bet, imo. And if I play this hand preflop, it's a clear raise with no one in front of me.

edge

05-29-2005, 03:35 AM

Making image plays is pointless at .5/1. If you want to play some weaker hands, at least use suited connectors.

Malachii

05-29-2005, 03:44 AM

I love playing connectors in late position. Often times you can pick up a small pot just by virtue of your aggressiveness and position. Also, it helps you get action on your good hands if people see you raising junk. If you want to simply fold them, there's nothing wrong with that, I just have a very loose style of play.

pzhon

05-29-2005, 07:33 AM

In hand 1, Q2s, how much would you bet on the coordinated flop if you had a made hand like AJ? I think you would bet more than half of the pot. I'd bet more to represent this, and increase the folding equity.

I don't like the bet on the river. Was it a bluff, or a value bet? I can't tell. I don't think someone with a king will fold. What worse hands will call?

In hand 2, 92s, you should bet the turn. Someone with a high heart (and only 7 outs) will call something then, but not after missing. Or, you could bet enough to push someone with a high heart out. These are both better than checking behind.

In hand 3, 65o, I think you should bet the flop. You have a gutshot and perhaps 6 pairing outs. It's pretty likely that you will simply get the pot without a fight. If you get check-raised by the big blind, you can call with a gutshot at the nuts, position, and a lot of money behind. You'll have to fold if check-raised a substantial amount by the short stacked small blind, though.

You should bet the river. You will get paid off by a 5 or worse much more frequently than you will lose to a flush who didn't bet. Someone may call with just a pair of aces.