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eLROY
12-17-2002, 01:27 PM
Just because you can make a fraction by putting one number upstairs and another number downstairs, does not mean anything. For instance, the other week someone was asking why the population of China is so high. So high relative to what? To food? To the number of letters in the name of the country?

The population density of planet Earth is meaningless. Because people are not actually dispersed evenly across the Earth, hardly any single person lives a mile away from anybody else. So what is the relevant number downstairs for population? Square acres of land? Square acres of arable land, square acres of arable land within 10 miles of a major bay or waterway?

Ultimately, you find out that the number in the denominator is the same number as the number in the numerator. Specifically, there is probably a person everywhere a person is comfortable being. The presence of a person is the most precise measure of the relevance of the land to a person! A bleak, remote mountain peak with one person, compared to a bustling town with 30,000 people, is precisely 1/30,000th the land using the relevant measure.

The point being, people and square acres of surface are completely unrelated. Otherwise, population would be constant throughout history! Japan has the highest population density and probably also the highest standard of living. Meaning, whatever it is that people should be measured relative to, Japan has the most of it, giving it the lowest population density.

Which brings us to big bets per hour. Hours do not make big bets. You cannot make big bets simply by being at a poker table or online for an hour. You cannot make big bets simply by mucking KJ under-the-gun for an hour. Big bets should be measured relative to slobs, relative to slick reads, relative to game selection, and the amount of their leisure time that morons are available to play.

Ultimately, as with population, the fraction itself disappears, when you realize the appropriate denominator is the numerator itself. Idiots, who throw away their money, don't need to be measured relative to anything. Idiots per hour? What do idiots have to do with hours? They certainly aren't there 24/7!

Okay, so suppose an idiot is there for 2 hours, and during that time he gives up 80 big bets. Then, for those two hourse, he is giving up 40 big bets per hour. But what is that silliness, he is giving up 40 big bets, I just don't see where the hours come in!

When you have sex with your wife/girlfriend, do you measure it in orgasms per hour? No, orgasms are orgasms. If a girl is giving one up when you are taking, that's one orgasm. If you do it 20 times, that's 20 orgasms. There's nothing inherent in the passage of time itself that produces either orgasms or big bets won.

eLROY

cepstrum
12-17-2002, 02:35 PM
hi elroy -

if i give my wife 20 orgasms in a week, she is going to tell her friends how great i am in the sack.

if i give my wife 20 orgasms over the course of a month, she is going to tell her friends that the magic is gone.

if i give my wife 20 orgasms over the course of a year, she is going to go through a lot of batteries and consider legal action.

if i can make 100k a year playing poker, i am going to consider quitting my job.

if i can make 100k in ten years playing poker, i am going to consider getting a new hobby.

all that is my way of saying that time probably is the right denominator in both poker and orgasms.

cheers
cepstrum

eLROY
12-17-2002, 02:50 PM
You don't quit playing poker because of your hourly rate. Rather, you play poker against people who hand you money. Hourly rate has nothing to do with it. Are you saying that, if you "made 100,000 in 10 years" playing poker, that if some idiot who had never played before came up and offered to play 100-200 heads-up, that you wouldn't play?

If you don't give your wife X orgasms a week, are you going to get divorced and swear off marriage? With that attitude, you will swear off everything. Because everything you pursue you will expect a free reward, simply for the passage of time. And since you will miss what the reward actually turns on, you will never get it, and will move on to the next thing...

eLROY

cepstrum
12-17-2002, 03:23 PM
no elroy, i am not saying that simply by passage of time i expect a free reward. nor am i saying that i would pass up the chance to play against a moron just because i am a dog in some games.

i am saying that time is part of what i must pay for the reward. in poker, as you say, to win, you must play in situations where for whatever reason you have an advantage. but to do this you need to invest time to acquire the skills to get this advantage, and then you must invest time to use those skills and win money. if the return is meager compared to this investment of time, the venture is not worthwhile, modulo the non-monetary rewards which are of course subjective.

you just plain need to normalize things like money won in order to have any idea what's going on. in poker, the only normalization factor that makes any sense is time. yes, your hourly rate changes based on your opponents and the game conditions. no, this does not make such estimates invalid.

cheers
cepstrum

Ray Zee
12-19-2002, 01:19 AM
well eLROY, your first premise is wrong. i live more than a mile from anyone else. you spend way too much time in san francisco.

but for the rest. things are measured in units per something. per hour per horsepower per acre per person, etc.

brad
12-19-2002, 01:41 AM
'There's nothing inherent in the passage of time itself that produces either orgasms or big bets won.'

i keep telling women that 5 minutes is plenty of time. i dont know why once i get to know them they hve to work so much and stuff and no time for me. (since i only take 5 minutes you would think there are *more* opportunities to 'fit me in', so to speak.)

soda
12-19-2002, 02:35 AM
Yesterday, I was cruising down the highway when this cop pulls me over. I'm turning my radio down just as he gets to the window and asks me for my license and registration. I had my license out already, but had to fumble through the glove box for the registration.

After locating it, I handed it to him asking "Did I do something wrong, officer?"

He responded with a question of his own, "Do you know how fast you were going, son?"

"Well, sure", I said "about 4, maybe 5 miles per song."

ba-dump-bump

Can you believe he gave me a ticket anyway? Scribbled something about 80 MPH in a 55 MPH zone. You know anything about this eLROY?

My point, I hope is obvious. Social norms help facilitate the transfer of information. It is a poker social norm that we exchange information about our winning or losing in amounts per time. This is most widely accepted in BB per hour. Just as an officer of the law will express your speed in Miles Per Hour. It is up to the individual to understand what that means.

soda

ps - A BB in the above post is a Big Bet, not a little round copper thing that young boys shoot out of guns. Perhaps you already accepted this as a poker norm and didn't need my further explanation.

pps - ps stands for post script.

Kurn, son of Mogh
12-19-2002, 09:21 AM
Actually, your idiots per hour idea underscores a key concept of winning poker - game selection. Find the game with the highest number of idiots per hour and you should make money.

By the way, the population of China is incredibly high vis-a-vis the quantity of potable water in the country. Literally. China is facing a water crisis of catastrophic proportions. Despite what most people think. The next world war will be fought over water, not oil.

brad
12-19-2002, 09:25 AM
sounds like you listen to alex jones. i was thinking about getting some of his t-shirts (hitler stalin mao , etc.

Kurn, son of Mogh
12-19-2002, 09:31 AM
I'm not familiar with him.

Kurn, son of Mogh
12-19-2002, 09:36 AM
>if i can make 100k in ten years playing poker, i am going to consider getting a new hobby.<

Why? Most hobbies have a negative return, financially speaking.

Homer
12-19-2002, 10:38 AM
ok, but what does pps stand for?

brad
12-19-2002, 11:07 AM
same thing.

letters stand for same words.

Bob T.
12-19-2002, 02:08 PM
I wish that we could use miles per song, I've had five speeding tickets in my adult life, and I know that four of them were while the Rolling Stones were being played.

Good Luck,
Play Well,

Bob T.