Eaxtacy as a cure for depression? (Long, pointless, off my face stuff)

[poker-penguin]

Warning, this is a long, probably somewhat incoherent post.

Basically why isn't extasy given to people with depression, the same way medicial weed is to terminal patients?

Ok, to put this in context, I suffer from depression but I am usually fuctional. It's not grade A depression, but it's S**T when it hits me. Pretty much I sit around trying not to feel too sorry for myself.

The last couple of days have been pretty bad, I've found myself wanting to make an album / playlist with songs of home, and wanting to listen to it and cry or just break stuff so I feel alive. Also found myself sure I'd be doomed to living / dying alone, and not acheieving anyting so why bother doing anything.

Scariest ****ing thing was that I caught myself thinking about cutting my wrists, not in a suicidal kind of way, just one of those f**ed up thoughts I have wanting to do soemthing stupid to feel like I'm alive, just wondering what it would feel like, same as dropping rocks off highway overpasss, just wanting to feel alive. Yes, this is a warning sign, but there's no way I'll ever do anything like that.

F*** no, suicide scares te **** out of me, and I would never ever ever ever do it. Ever. No way. I like life, it's just sonmetimes it's [censored] - life is suffering, right? Don't worry about that no way in hell I'm self-harming. No f***ing way. It's one of the last constants I have, even when I feel like I'm underachieving and ugly, and a nutcase. No way I'm doing anything like that. It's just depression thoughts, I rise above them because I'm a stubborn b*****d.

But anyway, the lasgt couple days have been bad for me, and sex didn't help, just made me feel lonely after, and dirty because it didn't matter and I was just being a selfish [censored].

So, I went out tonght with some mates, and one of them gave me Extasy. First time I've done anything harder than weed. I was nice and drunk first (6 beer and a litre of rye and coke) but still at about the right stage of drunk.

So it hits, eventually, and I'm still feeling really really good right now. The last couple or four hours I've been loving everyone in the world, and telling them, and understanding how good it is to feel simple stuff, like someone stroking your hair, or a chick's ass when you dance, or even just to sit there and be happy.

My pupils were the size of ****ing quarters, but I'm slowly coming back. Which sucks, I want to be where I'm at one with the world, and can just BE in a zen kind of way.

So yeah. Sorry to spew all this crap, but I just want to stay awake for a little, partly because I'm paranoid about unfamiliar drugs, and partly because I'm still a little rational and want to get this on record.

So, why isn't Xtsy presribed as a cure for depression? It fixes just about everything. I feel important, and loved, and like the world is OK. Is it the come down? Am I going to be worse tomorrow? Was this all just a temporary relief?

Again, sorry about this, I'm kinda off my head right now. Stroking my own hair / shirt is still fascinating, it feels so good. Seriously, I am reconnected with the simple pleasures of life, which is something that depression robs you of.

Yes, Xtacy is ilegal, and might be dangerous, and I'm a bad man. Let's ignore that. This was so much better than getting drunk and getting another empty screw or having a fight (another good way to feel alive), or anything like that.

So, one of the experts out there, or just some person, please tell me why this stuff isn't legal / available for people with depression. I mean, this ***T is good.

Is this some sort of "fun is bad" thing by governments, or are there like mental or health problems I have to look out for. I'm not saying that one will put me on the road to ruin. Drugs aren't as bad as straight people say they are. But I could easily see myself using X in the future when I'm down. Somehow it scares me less than going on some doctor pills. Anyway. I've typed enoough useless rubbish, and I'm sorry.

Sorry, I'm zoned out and want answers. I seriously think that I can self medicate will a tab of X far better than with booze, or counselling, or any of that stuff.

[Aytumious]

It's temporary and often can cause more depression if a person over uses the drug. Try St. John's Wort or go to your doctor and take prescribed antidepressants. You don't need to feel like [censored] all the time. Abusing drugs will only make things worse.

[poker-penguin]

Damn.

I don't want to go on doctor pills, they make the world all fuzzy (really not sure how that's different though).

I don't feel like ***t all the time, just when the black dog is bad. I'm not abusing drugs, just using them, aren't I?

Sure, they not legal, but that's so arbitrary. Tobacco is OK, and that ***t kills.

I promise, no more pills till at least next weekend. Possibly much longer, we'll see how tomorrow goes.

[stretch22]

from what I know of X, the people who use it often feel depressed and drained for days afterword. It seems like all your endorphins get used up or something and then you don't have any for the next few days and you feel empty and weird. It sounds like and judging by the fact that you posted in the middle of the night that you hadnt come down yet but I guess that part isn't nice. I think the thing people need to be weary of is the low that comes after the high, which for someone like you might be pretty brutal. I'm sure there are lots of reasons drugs like that aren't prescribed. Think about addiction, hallucination, feelings euphoria, general disorientation, effects of chemical imbalance as well as long term brain damage and what sort of effects they would have on society. I think after the next few days you'll understand the consequences...not to mention having a pretty nasty hangover. Good luck with everything. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Lazymeatball]

I'm pretty sure X is the worst possible drug (ok, so it's probably better than heroin or liquid plumber, but work with me) to be used my someone with a chemical imbalance suchs as depression. Just what i hear.

[chesspain]

Please make an appointment to see your family physician and/or a mental health professional, as it certainly sounds as if you are suffering from some type of depressive disorder. Although antidepressant medications can have side effects, you owe it to yourself to try to feel better--and taking dangerous street drugs like E is not the answer, since street drugs like E, alcohol, and marijuana will usually leave you feeling worse in the long-run, especially if you do suffer from depression.

Also, antidepressant medications need to be taken daily to be effective, even if you don't feel depressed every day. And they can take anyway from 2-6 weeks to take effect, so please try to feel patient if you agree to take them.

Finally, there is nothing that says that you will have to stay on these medications long-term. A mental health profressional, such as a psychologist, can help you try to determine if there may be behavioral/cognitive techniques that you can use to make changes so that you can try to remain healthy. In fact, research has shown that a combination of medication and therapy is usually more effective than either medication or therapy on its own.

Good luck to you.

Dr. Chesspain

[imported_bingobazza]

I think estacy is the worst thing. I took it many many times about 12 years ago, and while it feels great for a few hours, there is a marked comedown from it and it makes you feel like crap for 2 days after. The big clubs were only ever busy on friday nights, cos you needed 2 days to feel normal again after. The problem with it is that it results in lower serotonin levels (I think thats what they are called) in your brain. These are feel good chemicals and XTC kills them off. In suicide victims, these checmical levels are often found to be markedly lower than in healthy people, so maybe trying to fix the problem with this is asking for trouble. See your family doctor and take more exercise.

[Stuey]

[ QUOTE ]
pointless, off my face stuff

[/ QUOTE ]

Put everything I am about to say under this category also. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

1. I read once that smoking weed makes you happy as it releases endorphins. If you exercise you also feel happy because it releases endorphins. People smoke the weed as it is easy and takes less time. You need to exercise for 30 min to = 1 joint. /images/graemlins/frown.gif But understand you have a healthy option you just don't like it. Try it though just like smoking weed if you do it often enough you can't stop.

2. I remember someone telling me depression cannot be positively diagnosed if the person is abusing drugs. Alcohol was one of the worst if I recall right. You might think your problem is depression and the real problem is just drugs. It sucks, I know, but finding out if this is true is worth the risk imo. Stop drinking and doing drugs and exercise a stupid amount. Just to see what happens. Just like taking a pill some stranger gives you it is risky but why not try it?

3. Sugar is part of the problem also. It messes with your blood sugar and that messes with the way you feel and think. So try and quit the refined sugars. Pop, candy bars, anything refined. Eat fruit for sugar tasting stuff.

4. Cigs gota go also. I don't need to explain do I. They are a false sense of instant happiness. And they are killing you. You said you would never kill yourself. If you’re smoking you are doing it. It's a socially accepted way but still killing yourself.

5. Caffeine has to go for a while also. It is a stimulant and the idea here is to let your body rest and normalize. You need good sleep and stopping the caffeine will let you sleep like when you were a kid.

Anyone I have told this to complains that if they quit these things life will not be worth living. The only reason I tell them these things is because they told me life was not worth living in the first place.

If you don't like the solutions to your problems there is a good chance you just like to have problems.

I would just like to say I am not perfect. I do not do all of the things I have listed above. But during times in my life when things felt out of control. Or I feel down and sluggish I do all of these for a few months. And I kid you not you feel like a super hero. A very bored super hero with no friends or a sidekick even. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

So do it for a while and feel great then add a few fun things back into your life. But the trick is to try and do it in moderation. Good luck man everyone is different and there is a good chance I don't know what I'm talking about here. But I don't think my ideas can make things worse. If you find something that works for you I would love to hear it.

[A_C_Slater]

You don't really believe the key to happiness is putting a little pill in your mouth, do you?

One pill and you're cured?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't really believe the key to happiness is putting a little pill in your mouth, do you?


[/ QUOTE ]

The key to happiness?.....No

The key to possible mental stability?.....Yes

[poker-penguin]

Wow, thanks for the responses.

It's 2pm, and I've just woken up (well, when I'm drunk I wake up three of four times drink some water and go back to sleep. But I'm not awake for long so we'll count this as waking up). A little hungover, but not too badly at all, I feel worse from a phglemmy throat (damn the dry air) than I do from my slight headache.

So we're pill + about 14 hours now and all systems are still go. I am really thirsty though, maybe more than normal (I drink huge quanitities of water on a normal day - we're talking 4L or more).

For the record, I'm strictly a social / binge drinker (usually one night a week, but I've learned where my limits are), will have maybe a half a cigarette when drunk (although I didn't feel like it last night), and only smoke weed ocassionally. Last night was the first time I've tried anything harder and yes, I liked it, no I don't think it's a permanent solution, so don't worry about me running off and popping pills like candy, maybe in a few weeks I'll try one again for fun (I never intended to be self-medicating with it, a friend just offered me one and I thought "what the hell" and it definately reawakened me to the simple pleasures of life).

I guess breaking my own rule about never doing anything worse than weed is a bit of a warning sign. I'll probably find a doctor and make an apppointment on Monday (and that was an incredibly tough sentence to type, or rather to type honestly).

I've seen a doctor before (which was difficult to bring myself to do, my best friend basically had to threaten to drag me in with a control hold if I didn't go myself). I hate visiting doctors in general and hate feling weak as well) and that didn't help much - the doc was basically a "suck it up princess" kind of guy (which was what I had been trying to do, and still am I guess) so I ended up feeling like a whiny little ***ch as well.

But yeah, thanks for your concern. A part of me is saying "should never have pressed submit" but mostly I'm glad I did, other people saying stuff I know I should do sort of reinforces it.

[MataWispar]

my girlfriend was an extacy abuser about 6 years ago. she went through a period of about a year where she did it at least once a week. The depression she fought after she stopped lasted for two years. she claims it has caused damage to her memory and basic logic skills. if you think you feel bad now, it is nothing compared to how you will feel 5 or 10 years from now if you continue you choose drugs or alcohal as a short term answer. try to spend time with friends and family, and talk to them about how you feel. get a hobby or two. things will get better

[The13atman]

[ QUOTE ]
my girlfriend was an extacy abuser about 6 years ago. she went through a period of about a year where she did it at least once a week. The depression she fought after she stopped lasted for two years. she claims it has caused damage to her memory and basic logic skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Am I the only one here that has taken a college level psychology class? Ecstasy not only causes the loss of memory and logic skills, but those who have used ecstasy 3 or more times have a much higher chance of developing depression later in life.

If you wanna do drugs, that's your own prerogative, but at least know the consequences.

[BritNewbie]

Just wanted to say, I think Stuey's post is great.
That is all.

[trying2learn]

i've taken ecstacy many times. in fact there was a stretch in 2001 where i was averaging 7 to 8 tabs a week. at the time i went to anything x related i could - seminars, discussion groups, internet newsgroups - because i was so facinated with what this drug did for me.

*disclaimer - this is just one person's experience*

i never had these extreme lows people talk about...in fact, all i had was deep sleeps that lasted from 6 - 10 hours. after awaking, i normally felt refreshed.

my friends however did experience some of the problems commonly attributed to ecstacy. i even watched one girl practically od one night (which was the night most of us quit taking the drug).

i've often wondered if some people are chemically more tolerant to the drug...

i should say that i am not depressed, yet i do have MANY of the symptoms of ADD. don't really have a point to this post of mine, except to say that blanket statements about drug use are normally what lead to trouble in my experience.

saying drugs are bad doesn't bode well for kids who feel so good upon first trying them and then decide that they've been lied to for awhile.

part of the problem about this drug (for me anyway), wasn't that it was bad...but that it was too good.

[OtisTheMarsupial]

Don't do X to cure your depression.
Don't take drugs from your doc.
Instead
Exercise regularly.
Get some therapy - not how did your parents f*ck you up therapy, get some cognitive therapy to re-train your mind

good luck to you

[ceskylev]

To add:

I've suffered from depression my whole life, but foolishly resisted treatment until about three or four years ago.

- Yes, the prescription meds all have side effects. However, your body is capable of adjusting and the SEs can diminish over time. Moreover, you probably won't have to take them forever. Just take them EVERY DAY and DON'T go off of them until the doc says so.

- You have to be patient with meds, and you may have to try a few before you figure out what's best. Be patient, but also be assertive with your doc. If the SEs of one med are too much (Paxil turned me into a zombie, for example) have your doc put you on something else. There are plenty of similar meds out there; you have options.

- Drugs are not the cure-all. Drugs fix the chemical imbalances, but therapy is important. Even a short period with a good therapist can work wonders. If possible, get a referral from someone you trust. I found the best shrink in the world through a good friend.

- I'm a believer that there are also nutritional and exercise issues that will affect your mental health. Simply working up a good sweat every other day will help. Also, do some research on omega-3 fatty acids and see what comes up.

Good luck.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
To add:

I've suffered from depression my whole life, but foolishly resisted treatment until about three or four years ago.

- Yes, the prescription meds all have side effects. However, your body is capable of adjusting and the SEs can diminish over time. Moreover, you probably won't have to take them forever. Just take them EVERY DAY and DON'T go off of them until the doc says so.

- You have to be patient with meds, and you may have to try a few before you figure out what's best. Be patient, but also be assertive with your doc. If the SEs of one med are too much (Paxil turned me into a zombie, for example) have your doc put you on something else. There are plenty of similar meds out there; you have options.

- Drugs are not the cure-all. Drugs fix the chemical imbalances, but therapy is important. Even a short period with a good therapist can work wonders. If possible, get a referral from someone you trust. I found the best shrink in the world through a good friend.

- I'm a believer that there are also nutritional and exercise issues that will affect your mental health. Simply working up a good sweat every other day will help. Also, do some research on omega-3 fatty acids and see what comes up.

Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good post. The negative stigma attached to antidepressants and, to a lesser extent, therapy is very unfortunate. Many people continue to suffer when very good treatment is just a doctor visit away.

[krimson]

I've taken about 50+ hits of e over the past 5 years. Trust me this is not a cure for depression.

After doing it the first time I was pretty much like you, as well as my friends, wondering why this isn't used to make the world happy.

After taking a couple of doses the full on effects start wearing off. Before you know it, you will need to take 2 pills rather than 1, which turns into 3 and 4. Now adays even taking 4 pills in one night isn't much of a kick in the face.

As you increase your dosage, so does the after effects increase. Worse hangovers, longer periods of depression.

These pills are also not pure "ecstasy" (mdma), they are being combined with other not-so-friendly drugs which increase the effects such as PCP and methamphetamines. Meth is one of the worst and most addictive drugs you can do next to Heroin and Crack.

Needless to say, what starts as a magical feeling, turns into drug use. Maybe not out-of-control heroin level drug use, but drug use none the less.

I have had and have a number of friends who are dealing with methamphetamine addiction, and it all started with that wonderful first cap of e.

Be careful, and if you do continue to experiment with drugs, make sure you know as much as possible about what you are taking (www.erowid.org).

[scalf]

/images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif..

you give symptoms of mood changes, substance abuse, meaninglessness of life, contemplating self-mutilation for release of anxiety and/or to give meanibg to life....

you should seek mental health care...

anti-depressants might help some..

x willl kill ya..

good luck

/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[whiskeytown]

it has always astounded me how people don't want to try doctor prescribed attempts at slowing/reversing depression, but are more then willing to go the alcohol/illicit drugs route. Esp. considering alcohol/drug addictions tend to go one for life, and antidepressants can usually be dropped after a yr. or two.

Granted, they don't feel as good as booze, and won't make up for things like self confidence, but nevertheless, they're still good to have around.

try a doctor - I know a friend who had to rotate a little while till he found a combination of antidepressants that worked for him, but he's doing a bit better.

I've heard nothing but bad things on X...you shoot your load of seratoain at once and then you're really up crap creek - stay away.

RB

[poker-penguin]

Again, thanks for the replies people.

I've had the dreaded talk, and basically chickened out of going on pills. I know, this is stupid, please don't go through this again.

I'm far too proud, and stubborn, for my own good, and going on a prescription would just feel like admitting defeat.

So I've got some major lifestyle changes to make.

The big one is obviously no ilegal drugs (or cigarettes). I think I got lucky and didn't have a huge comedown. I'm not going to risk it again. Even weed is off the menu for now. It's not that I used them much, but uh, they're bad.

I'm still going to drink a little (not more than once a week and only if I feel like it and am in a good mood). Yes, I know I'm not officially supposed to, but I'm not going to drink to excess, just enough to make my night more fun. I've had enough preaching about this one, and know the risk I'm running. But, screw it, I like getting pleasantly drunk, and the rewards outweigh the risks, despite what your knee jerk reaction might be (sorry, this was the topic of a lot of discussion).

I'm also generally getting a healthier diet (cutting down on sugar, caffiene, fatty foods, all that sort of stuff that people in general get told to cut down on). Apparantly, being more conscious of respecting my body will make me happier with myself.

I'm exercising (ok, so this isn't a huge change, more cardio, less weights, but that's a change I needed to make anyway). I guess "I'm taking exercise seriously" would be a better way of putting it. It's the endorphins, and also the sense of achievement.

I'm meditating (well, that's what I'm going to call it anyway). It's basically just spending some time inside my head, trying to feel happy there, and know what's going on. I've also got some handy dandy mental tricks to try.

I'm not considering myself a pro poker player any more. Instead, I'm living my savings and what the business makes(gulp), and playing poker for fun - if I happen to win money, that's great, but I don't have any targets to meet. I wasn't sure about this one, but I guess it keeps the upsides without the downsides (and lets me take days where I don't play much without feeling guilty).


So yes, I'm a stubborn idiot and doctor drugs are good. I guess I'm trying to keep my pride somewhat intact, and also keeping a fallback position if things get worse.

Thought you guys might like an update (although a part of me just wants to let this thread die, another part wants to keep it as a monument to my stupidity and desperation and if people bothered to respond, they deserve some sort of response).

[Derek in NYC]

Dont listen to a bunch of degenerate gamblers. Seek professional help. There are smart guys who went to med school, and other smart guys who studied pharmacology who invent drugs, whose job it is to think about curing the types of problems you seem to have. Help is out there.

[mockingbird]

I encourage you to make the changes you are talking about and wish you well. I would also suggest that you get some sort of support group to help you make these changes permanent. In my experience, it is relatively easy to make changes after an emotional crisis but very hard to maintain them over time without support and help from others.

Also, I respect your decision not to use antidepressants but encourage you to keep an open mind about trying them in the future if these episodes continue. I feel that your assessment of antidepressants as being for weak people is flawed. It is just taking advantage of the miracle of modern medicine. Depression is a legitamate illness and should be viewed as such. Your attitude makes me think of someone refusing antibiotics for a serious infection because his body should be strong enough to fight it off. He may well be able to clear the infection without antibiotics, and then again he may not. And why refuse a treatment that will give him a much much greater chance of being cured and of being cured in a shorter period of time. Also, an infection left untreated can damage the body. (Just like depression left untreated can damage your life. You feel badly then - take X, yell at your girlfriend, dont go to work, or whatever. ) Why put yourself through it because of a misconception of strength or manliness? Do the smart thing and get treatment. The SMART thing, not the weak thing.

[regisd]

MDMA wasn't used clinically as a cure for depression as far as i know. it was used for a while by some fringe researchers specifically to help people who'd been through extreme trauma to talk about the trauma without freaking out immediately.

it'll make you feel good for a while, but in the long run it's probably worse for you if you've got seratonin-related depressive brain chemistry, since it mucks up your seratonin production and uptake.