Rando Drunk Debate : Poll me bitches [Archive]

GuyOnTilt

05-28-2005, 04:59 AM

JustinA, Catch, and I went out bowling and turned it into a drinking game per frame. I lost early pretty badly and since it's a loser disadvantage game, I kept losing and was absolutely destroyed by the end of the four hours. Anyway, on the ride home, rando discussion on the sensibility of the singular tense (tense?). Let's say I want to say, "I have been dating this girl for one year." You use the word year. But if you have been dating a shorter time than that, all of a sudden it turns to plural tense, e.g. "I have been dating this girl for .75 years." Saying fractions doesn't apply here, but for whatever reason fractions do. Anyway, I was the only one of us three that thought that this was non-sensical. And I was/is very drunk, so maybe I'm not thinking correctly. Is this non-sensical, or is this a practical system?

Yeti

05-28-2005, 05:23 AM

Huh? Just say 6 months, 9 months, whatever. Nerd.

GuyOnTilt

05-28-2005, 05:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Huh? Just say 6 months, 9 months, whatever. Nerd.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, this point was brought up during the discussion. Apply it to something other than time. Such as, "My earn is one big bet per hundred," as compared to, "My earn is .85 big bets per hundred."

GoT

Brainwalter

05-28-2005, 05:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Huh? Just say 6 months, 9 months, whatever. Nerd.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, this point was brought up during the discussion. Apply it to something other than time. Such as, "My earn is one big bet per hundred," as compared to, "My earn is .85 big bets per hundred."

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

So what do you think it should be? ".85 big bet"? Or should we have to say ".85 of a BB" or ".85 of one BB"?

Jman28

05-28-2005, 05:30 AM

How about the fact that you'd probably say "I earn 1.0 big bets per hour." That's a little more crazy.

Jazza

05-28-2005, 05:35 AM

so you're saying we should say ".99 year" but "1.01 years" ?

this requires too much thinking

Justin A

05-28-2005, 05:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How about the fact that you'd probably say "I earn 1.0 big bets per hour." That's a little more crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dammit, that throws my theory out the window. I argued that one is singular, so you use the singular form of the word, but parts thereof were still plural. This 1.0 big bets stuff is really confusing me.

cnfuzzd

05-28-2005, 05:36 AM

i lvoe discussions like this...

i think it has something to do with the fact that, strictly in a correct grammer sense, decimals are never meant to be used in speech. We are always supposed to use fractions, which is where the plural comes in. For instance, in your BB example, you should really be saying "my current winrate is eight five one hundredths of a big bet."

peace

john nickle

Justin A

05-28-2005, 05:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
so you're saying we should say ".99 year" but "1.01 years" ?

this requires too much thinking

[/ QUOTE ]

He's saying it should make more sense, not that we really should. But still, can anyone figure out why 1.0 bets is the plural form? What is going on around here?

Justin A

05-28-2005, 05:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i lvoe discussions like this...

i think it has something to do with the fact that, strictly in a correct grammer sense, decimals are never meant to be used in speech. We are always supposed to use fractions, which is where the plural comes in. For instance, in your BB example, you should really be saying "my current winrate is eight five one hundredths of a big bet."

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks peace john nickle.

GuyOnTilt

05-28-2005, 05:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
so you're saying we should say ".99 year" but "1.01 years" ?

this requires too much thinking

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not offering a specific solution. I am just submitting that the current system is illogical and non-sensical.

GoT

GuyOnTilt

05-28-2005, 05:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]

i think it has something to do with the fact that, strictly in a correct grammer sense, decimals are never meant to be used in speech.

[/ QUOTE ]

This can't be correct, can it? Is using decimals in spoken language really incorrect? I have a hard time believing that, though I admit I really have no basis for believing this other than I have a hard time believing it. Can we get confirmation on this?

GoT

[censored]

05-28-2005, 05:58 AM

You have me convinced. I voted yes it is nosensical.

cnfuzzd

05-28-2005, 05:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

i think it has something to do with the fact that, strictly in a correct grammer sense, decimals are never meant to be used in speech.

[/ QUOTE ]

This can't be correct, can it? Is using decimals in spoken language really incorrect? I have a hard time believing that, though I admit I really have no basis for believing this other than I have a hard time believing it. Can we get confirmation on this?

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

I think i may have figured out why everyone gets it wrong, but according to http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/numbers.htm

[ QUOTE ]
When fractional or decimal expression are 1 or less, the word they modify should be singular: 0.7 meter, 0.22 cubic foot, 0.78 kilometer. Precede decimal fractions with a value less than one with a leading zero before the decimal point.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, there ya go.

it is 0.75 bet for every one hundred hands played.

peace

john nickle

GuyOnTilt

05-28-2005, 06:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You have me convinced. I voted yes it is nosensical.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, either you're being funny, or I really screwed up the wording of my poll and the results are going to show nothing.

GoT

GuyOnTilt

05-28-2005, 06:14 AM

Awesome. I feel so vindicated. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

GoT

Justin A

05-28-2005, 06:18 AM

From the link you listed:

"Business and technical writing sometimes goes by a different set of standards"

So is this to say this is a technical thing that is different from proper English? Once again I am very confused.

[censored]

05-28-2005, 06:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Um, either you're being funny, or I really screwed up the wording of my poll and the results are going to show nothing.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

I voted yes based on this

[ QUOTE ]
Is this non-sensical, or is this a practical system?

[/ QUOTE ]

private joker

05-28-2005, 06:22 AM

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Respondendo a:</font><hr />
i lvoe discussions like this...

i think it has something to do with the fact that, strictly in a correct grammer sense, decimals are never meant to be used in speech. We are always supposed to use fractions, which is where the plural comes in. For instance, in your BB example, you should really be saying "my current winrate is eight five one hundredths of a big bet."

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this doesn't work. Because if you write it out in certain measuring systems, you still have to write plural.

"How much does that bag weigh?"
"0.6 lbs"

You write "1 lb." But you also have to write .75 lbs. If you wrote ".6 lb" it would be incorrect.

cnfuzzd

05-28-2005, 06:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
From the link you listed:

"Business and technical writing sometimes goes by a different set of standards"

So is this to say this is a technical thing that is different from proper English? Once again I am very confused.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, the site i found pertains to "standard academic prose" which is what you would consider to pretty much normal conversation. Technical writing and such is things like owners manuals and training pamphlets...

peace

john nickle

[censored]

05-28-2005, 06:24 AM

also .75 year

would be said "sevety-five one hundreths of a YEAR" no plural.

cnfuzzd

05-28-2005, 06:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i lvoe discussions like this...

i think it has something to do with the fact that, strictly in a correct grammer sense, decimals are never meant to be used in speech. We are always supposed to use fractions, which is where the plural comes in. For instance, in your BB example, you should really be saying "my current winrate is eight five one hundredths of a big bet."

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this doesn't work. Because if you write it out in certain measuring systems, you still have to write plural.

"How much does that bag weigh?"
"0.6 lbs"

You write "1 lb." But you also have to write .75 lbs. If you wrote ".6 lb" it would be incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, thats not correct. see the link i referenced later in the thread...

to quote...

[ QUOTE ]
Use numerals for decimals and fractions: 0.75, 3.45, 1/4 oz, 7/8 in. (Notice that abbreviations are always written in the singular form whether they would be expressed as plurals or not: 14 oz, 12 in.

[/ QUOTE ]

peace

john nickle

cnfuzzd

05-28-2005, 06:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Awesome. I feel so vindicated. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

no charge...

peace

john nickle

GuyOnTilt

05-28-2005, 06:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"How much does that bag weigh?"
"0.6 lbs"

[/ QUOTE ]

If I remember correctly from 4th grade, the abbreviation for pounds is actually just lb. People usually put lbs, but if I remember correctly that is wrong.

GoT

Justin A

05-28-2005, 06:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"How much does that bag weigh?"
"0.6 lbs"

[/ QUOTE ]

If I remember correctly from 4th grade, the abbreviation for pounds is actually just lb. People usually put lbs, but if I remember correctly that is wrong.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I lose, regardless of the poll results.

GuyOnTilt

05-28-2005, 06:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I voted yes based on this

[ QUOTE ]

Is this non-sensical, or is this a practical system?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not a yes or no question. I titled the poll as a yes or no. But yeah, definitely my bad for using a crappy poll format. The choices should've been "Sensical" and "Non-sensical" or something similar.

GoT

fnord_too

05-28-2005, 10:27 AM

I always consider the singular means exactly one. So 0.5 donuts or half of a donut are both acceptable, but 0.5 donut or half donut are not. I suppose you could check a grammar book.

fnord_too

05-28-2005, 10:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
When fractional or decimal expression are 1 or less, the word they modify should be singular: 0.7 meter, 0.22 cubic foot, 0.78 kilometer. Precede decimal fractions with a value less than one with a leading zero before the decimal point.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

So I have been looking for 10 minutes for another grammar guide to confirm this. I'll ask our tech writer on monday since this sounds awkward to me. (Then again, "the data are..." always sounds awkward to me, too.)

goofball

05-28-2005, 10:42 AM

YOu could always say "the datum is"

fnord_too

05-28-2005, 11:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
YOu could always say "the datum is"

[/ QUOTE ]
Not if there is more than one data point

DcifrThs

05-28-2005, 11:54 AM

its the decimal that makes it plural...

1 year.
1.0 years.
.8 years.

as for whether it makes "sense" thats not the issue. these grammatical oddities likely came from ease of speech, not logical rule following (like much of the english language...see "an" and "a")

-Barron

antidan444

05-28-2005, 12:01 PM

cnfuzzd got it right in the grammatical sense (I actually had to look it up myself).

However, this is one of those grammatical things that, at least in journalism (I'm a sportswriter), we choose to overlook. "0.75 donut" sounds horrible and looks awkward, so even though that is the correct way to write it (and say it), the vast majority of the time we stick the 's' at the end. Which, as a result, has made the plural form common usage.

Yep, blame the media again. /images/graemlins/grin.gif