Have a good laugh at this one

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Perhaps the worst playing of AA ever.

'Stars $30 + 3 single. Level II 15/30, 9 still around. Stacks range from 1000-2000 or so. I'm MP1 with A /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif

2 folds, I limp. MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB raises to 60, BB calls, I call, MP2 calls, Button raises to 120, Blinds call, I call, MP2 folds, (540)

Flop: 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Blinds check, I check, MP2 checks, Button bets 150, SB calls, BB folds, I raise to 450, Button calls, SB folds. (1590)

Turn: 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I push in, button instantly calls his last 690 and turns over A /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

River: 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I think this one has to be the lead chapter in "How to Lose Money With AA" /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps the worst playing of AA ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty far from it. Yes, he should have reraised more PF, but wouldn't you (or at the very least most opponents) have played this pretty similarly with a hand like QQ with Q of clubs, and maybe (though far less likely) even without the club? He really can't make the laydown postflop unless a fourth club comes, I don't think, as there's just not enough stack for him to concretely determine that you've got the nut flush. Way to skillfully flop the flush, though.

[Newt_Buggs]

you and your opponent should both read this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2497705&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) guide

[ur2god]

luck

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps the worst playing of AA ever.


[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you're writing the chapter on how to lose money with Ac9c, correct?

[TruFloridaGator]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps the worst playing of AA ever.


[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you're writing the chapter on how to lose money with Ac9c, correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the better laugh. /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Yeah, you're right. If I don't flop the nuts I lose 7% of my stack with 40 BB left. That's a real great reason to fold preflop getting 8:1.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

No doubt, but if he makes it 120 to go the first time around, I'm long gone.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Preflop, limping on the button in a multiway pot makes a huge range of flops dangerous to him. His small reraise makes it wrong for anyone to fold even if they know he has AA.

On the flop, of course he doesn't know I have the nuts, but he certainly knows *he* doesn't have a club, and he gives 3 opponents odds to call.

but wouldn't you (or at the very least most opponents) have played this pretty similarly with a hand like QQ with Q of clubs

If you mean he might have played this similarly with QQ, one club -

Would I limp from the button with QQ, only double the bet when it's minraised back to me with 4 opponents, then only bet 1/4 the pot on a monochrome flop with a draw to only the 3rd nut flush??

If you mean I might have played QQ, one club like this against his actions, that's even more absurd. Especially checkraising the flop into a guy whose preflop play screamed AA *and* 2 other opponents when I don't have the A /images/graemlins/club.gif.

I guess all you newbies out there don't get the concept of humor or irony. The purpose of this post was not to say "look how great I played this hand," but to show how his poor play opened up the door to his aces getting cracked. That's OK. I don't post much on here any more, so you're not familiar with me. Maybe I should've put some smileys in.

The one valid criticism of my play is limping with a medium suited A with 6 players left to act. I have to fold to any reasonble raise. At every point after that preflop (postflop, obviously the hand plays itself), nobody make a reasonable raise.

If you're saying I should raise/fold initially preflop, that's reasonable (I might disagree, but that's a different argument), if you're saying at any point thereafter preflop I should have folded, that's flat out wrong.

[The once and future king]

Kurn, dont confuse the party players with only 800 starting chips who only know how to play tight early and then push any 2 on the bubble.

I dont think Ive laughed so hard since I saw that guy linking you to the how to play NLHE thread.

Let me assure all previous posters in this thread:

Kurn> you.

Edited to add: You do deserve some stick for calling this the worst playing of AA ever. I think anyone who has played more than a week online will have seen AA played worse than this.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop, limping on the button in a multiway pot makes a huge range of flops dangerous to him. His small reraise makes it wrong for anyone to fold even if they know he has AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree the small reraise was bad. That's the thing I like least about this hand. As for limping, if he expected a raise behind him, I don't mind it so much if he plans to reraise bigger here. I like best a nice standard 4 BBs or so. So that was pretty bad. Postflop, in an SNG, where a huge chunk of opponents are not going to even put him on AA/KK based on his PF actions, and plenty others will play TPTK on this flop, I really can't see him getting away from this too often unless a fourth club comes.

[ QUOTE ]

I guess all you newbies out there don't get the concept of humor or irony. The purpose of this post was not to say "look how great I played this hand," but to show how his poor play opened up the door to his aces getting cracked.

[/ QUOTE ]

What humor or irony? You state all of this pretty explicitly, talking about how it's the worst play of AA ever. I guess you veterans have short-term memory problems. Or not much sense of what is humorous.

EDIT: Also, I'm not complaining about your playing of the A9s.

[gasgod]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps the worst playing of AA ever.

[/ QUOTE ]


I've seen worse. In a .50/1 ring game on Party last October I saw two players each holding AA (in the same hand) just call and fold. Neither ever raised, and this was a limit game!. Ironically, they were "right" as the hand was won by a flush.

I'd post the HH, but it would take too long to find it.

GG

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I think anyone who has played more than a week online will have seen AA played worse than this.

I must've been mesmerized by the limp-reraise from the button. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

As for limping, if he expected a raise behind him, I don't mind it so much if he plans to reraise bigger here.

He's on the button, it's a bit much to *expect* a raise behind him.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

He's on the button, it's a bit much to *expect* a raise behind him.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a vacuum, I agree. However, there are definitely some players who I think will pretty frequently pop this for a large amount from the SB or BB just to try and grab money from the limpers. So I can conceive of instances where it might not be totally unreasonable to think that a raise is pretty likely to happen. But yes, those are going to be the exception rather than the rule. As I said before, I think it's better to just make a standard raise there.

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you're right. If I don't flop the nuts I lose 7% of my stack with 40 BB left. That's a real great reason to fold preflop getting 8:1.

[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't flop the nuts. You didn't lose 7% of your stack. See how that works? But hey, if it makes you feel better to criticize fish while you're limping and calling minraises and minreraises with any two because you're getting 8:1 odds with hands that are huge dogs in multiway pots, have at it! Just out of curiousity, how many more preflop raises were you willing to call from the sandwich position?

[gumpzilla]

A9s is pretty far from any two. It's a holding that I would love to play in a multiway pot if I could kind of cheaply. He did flop the nuts. You're not making too much sense here.

At Stars there's generally a little more room for these kinds of plays.

[valenzuela]

every day someone calls an all-in from me with AJ on level 1 and u want me to get excited about a guy who didnt fold aces on tricky community cards? Dude join the party club , now!

[TomCollins]

Keep playing the nuts buddy.

[Phill S]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you're right. If I don't flop the nuts I lose 7% of my stack with 40 BB left. That's a real great reason to fold preflop getting 8:1.

[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't flop the nuts. You didn't lose 7% of your stack. See how that works? But hey, if it makes you feel better to criticize fish while you're limping and calling minraises and minreraises with any two because you're getting 8:1 odds with hands that are huge dogs in multiway pots, have at it! Just out of curiousity, how many more preflop raises were you willing to call from the sandwich position?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont like to judge people too harshly, but from what you write its clear that your knowledge of deep(er) stack NL tourney play is limited.

Kurn on the other hand ive respected for almost as long as ive been here.

Again, its not an any two type hand. And i know that if he flopped TPTK or even TPWK he would get away from the hand if under fire.

Phill

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
A9s is pretty far from any two. It's a holding that I would love to play in a multiway pot if I could kind of cheaply. He did flop the nuts. You're not making too much sense here.

At Stars there's generally a little more room for these kinds of plays.

[/ QUOTE ]

Until your post, I thought a spade had fallen on the flop, the OP flopped the nut draw, failed to hit it, and then posted about how bad the AA guy played his hand. So you're right, I haven't been making much sense. With that said, I still think every action OP made before the flop here was horrible. Very unlikely you get to play a multiway pot with this hand cheaply by limping from MP with six players left to act. Judging by the OP's subsequent preflop calls, I think it's also pretty unlikely he doesn't lose a significant amount of chips when the flop gives him a lone pair and somebody wants to play with him.

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
I know that if he flopped TPTK or even TPWK he would get away from the hand if under fire.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he certainly wasn't able to get away from the battle of the preflop minraisers from the sandwich position, so I don't know about that.

[Phill S]

Preflop action:

2 folds, I limp. Im not to keen in following in here to be honest, but if thats how he plays, its his money - not worst ive ever seen - cost so far, 30

MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB raises to 60, BB calls, I call, Here you have called 30, and have to call another 30, you cant fold here, 60 invested total

MP2 calls, Button raises to 120, Blinds call, I call, Now its 60 to you, with mp2 the only guy left to act behind who has so far not raised. you cant fold for 60 on the pure price - stuck to a call, 120 invested

MP2 folds,

Pot: 540

-----

Ok, so he invested 120 in total - but at no point did he invest more that 60, and by that point the price was too big to pass up. Again, im not keen on playing this hand from such an early position, but thats my play, not his, and as long as he is happy doing so, i cant complain with how the preflop action happened.

Phill

[Daliman]

Not to jump on the beat-down bandwagon, but a limp-in with A9s here is marginal at best, but, then again, this IS a Stars tourney, and I'm pretty sure you have a handle on NL in general, and could get away from an ace flop if you needed to. Still though, what are you calling for then, other than the flush? Eh, you know all this.


Also, yeah, seen WAY worse play of AA, but come around more often. We need more Klingons in STT forum.

Oh, and Brady/Manning pretty obviously gonna be a wash, with both getting in immediately when eligible.

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
Im not to keen in limping in here to be honest . . . SB raises to 60 . . . you can't fold
here . . . Button raises to 120 . . . you can't fold

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're telling me that you don't think this hand is worth a limp and that the OP's decision to limp puts him in a position where he is forced to call four times the big blind with a hand that will almost certainly have to be folded postflop and no certainty that he's even paid what it's gonna ultimately cost to get a peek at the flop (one guy left to act as of his last preflop call).

I think we agree, and I think the preflop action in this hand demonstrates why A9 suited is such a clear early/middle position fold at this stage of a tourney.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

a limp-in with A9s here is marginal at best

No argument. I fold this at later levels, or if the table is aggressive. This one was not.

what are you calling for then, other than the flush?

When it's 60 back to me, I'm getting 8:1 immediate with a reasonable expectation that the one player left behind me will call closing the action (that he didn't is irrelevant).

When the button did his reraise thing, I thought 'now I'm down a rathole against AA' and would have folded had the blinds folded. Against AA in the multiway pot, I'm about a 9:1 dog, so I a) make that up when I hit, or b) have good enough odds at 8:1 against his range of hands which I believed at the time to be AA 90% of the time.

I call there for the same reason I call a small all-in from the BB without looking at my cards at a B&M tourney. I'm calling for that 10% hand.

Let's say I flop a draw. Do you think a guy who played preflop like he did would deny me odds on the flop? We obviously know he didn't from the way he played, but I contend that's reasonable expectation.

Reason 2: I've invested 12 minutes in this tourney. I know I'd rather gamble a bit now to build a stack and risk going bust than to play too tight and find myself with 10BB after 45 minutes. Time is money.

Speculative play? Yes. Did I get lucky? Yes. When the odds are right, there's nothing wrong with playing to get lucky. That's the lesson the "poker's not gambling" geeks will never understand.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Speculative play? Yes. Did I get lucky? Yes. When the odds are right, there's nothing wrong with playing to get lucky. That's the lesson the "poker's not gambling" geeks will never understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If poker geeks are about anything other than gambling when the odds are good, I haven't found it yet, so I don't really understand what this paragraph is supposed to mean. Is your mom shacking up with a nerd or something? You seem awfully hostile.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Is your mom shacking up with a nerd or something? You seem awfully hostile.

My mom is 82. If she's shacking up with anyone, more power to her.

That doesn't make you any less of a c*ck s*cking moron for typing that sentence. I'm probably more than twice your age, but I'll be happy to crush your skull if I ever meet you in person. That is, unless you apologize.

[xPuns1her]

Cool post you fu.cking fa.g. Great you sucked out on AA and now your a god at poker. DIE

[Eder]

[ QUOTE ]
. Maybe I should've put some smileys in.



[/ QUOTE ]

Rotf...wiping beer of my laptop screen!!

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