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View Full Version : Two Hands: Call the All-In? Push?


EasilyFound
05-27-2005, 06:05 PM
OK. Two hands from $11 SNG PartyPoker. Would like to know how people would play each of these hands: do you call in the first one and do you push/raise/fold in the second?

Thanks.

***** Hand History for Game 2114522544 *****
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 12577335) - Fri May 27 16:49:18 EDT 2005
Table 35339 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: Here_to_play (960)
Seat 3: coloisra (2105)
Seat 5: SoylentCo (1050)
Seat 6: Mhaser (740)
Seat 8: EasilyFound (1330)
Seat 10: sedge94 (1815)
Here_to_play posts small blind (100)
coloisra posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to EasilyFound [ 7c, 7h ]
SoylentCo raises (1050) to 1050
SoylentCo is all-In.
Mhaser folds.
EasilyFound ?????

***** Hand History for Game 2114524560 *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 12577335) - Fri May 27 16:49:46 EDT 2005
Table 35339 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: Here_to_play (860)
Seat 3: coloisra (1905)
Seat 5: SoylentCo (1350)
Seat 6: Mhaser (740)
Seat 8: EasilyFound (1330)
Seat 10: sedge94 (1815)
coloisra posts small blind (150)
SoylentCo posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to EasilyFound [ Ah, 6h ]
Mhaser folds.
EasilyFound ????

BDarch
05-27-2005, 06:14 PM
I'd call in the 1st one but idk if thats the best move and then I would push the 2nd example

xLukex
05-27-2005, 06:20 PM
I played a couple against SoylentCo today.

That's about all I can contribute to this thread.

Push the first. Can't remember the 2nd.

Nick B.
05-27-2005, 06:38 PM
I would probably fold them both. In the first one, you have to respect the UTG raise, and you don't have a desperate stack. The second one, you have too much to risk on a weak suited ace with so many people to act after you.

EasilyFound
05-27-2005, 06:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The second one, you have too much to risk on a weak suited ace with so many people to act after you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really . . . I have 4.43xbb here. The blinds are one-third of my stack. I didn't feel like I could wait that much more, but maybe I could.

lastchance
05-27-2005, 07:22 PM
He's wrong. 4x BB with FE? Your position does suck, but your stack sucks even more. The 2nd is an easy push.

The 1st is a tough one. 6x BB, true, but UTG all-in, which is not good. UTG's got 5x BB, he's pushing something like 22+, A2+, K9+, QJ. 77's 55%... And I think my range was a bit wide... Against 44+, A7+, KJ+, 77's 49%...

ICM plays a small part here, but it's still 6-handed. Hero's a coinflip? Is the lay worth it? Plus, someone could pick up a hand behind you...

I think I fold, but it's not easy.

TruFloridaGator
05-27-2005, 07:24 PM
I would call & push, but the 1st is tough. Too much FE on the 2nd to pass up...

Nick B.
05-27-2005, 07:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The second one, you have too much to risk on a weak suited ace with so many people to act after you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really . . . I have 4.43xbb here. The blinds are one-third of my stack. I didn't feel like I could wait that much more, but maybe I could.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 4+BB but you are above an average stack. Other people are a lot more desperate than you. This point in the tournament you can get blinded down, and win 1 hand and double or triple up to an average or above average stack.

lastchance
05-27-2005, 08:31 PM
Or you can steal 1.5 BB 50+% of the time, and get to a very healthy stack that way.

I think A6s is way too good to fold here. Anyone want to crunch some numbers? You can't get into the money without a few steals or a double-up. This, especially when you're going to be down to 3x BB after the blinds hit in the next 4 hands, is an excellent spot to get your chips in.

Nick B.
05-27-2005, 08:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Or you can steal 1.5 BB 50+% of the time, and get to a very healthy stack that way.

I think A6s is way too good to fold here. Anyone want to crunch some numbers? You can't get into the money without a few steals or a double-up. This, especially when you're going to be down to 3x BB after the blinds hit in the next 4 hands, is an excellent spot to get your chips in.

[/ QUOTE ]

eh whatever. You can play as you wish.

TruFloridaGator
05-27-2005, 08:59 PM
Tru, neither hand is automatic..I think either way on both are acceptable, however overtime the A6s push is +ev, so why not just stay with it.

curtains
05-27-2005, 09:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Or you can steal 1.5 BB 50+% of the time, and get to a very healthy stack that way.

I think A6s is way too good to fold here. Anyone want to crunch some numbers? You can't get into the money without a few steals or a double-up. This, especially when you're going to be down to 3x BB after the blinds hit in the next 4 hands, is an excellent spot to get your chips in.

[/ QUOTE ]

eh whatever. You can play as you wish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would definitely push with the A6s and I don't think its close.

lastchance
05-27-2005, 09:01 PM
I want to know, because if folding A6s here is bad, then my L4 and L5 game sucks. I'm probably a losing player.

LC pushes 22+, A2+, K8+, QJ, plus suited hands?

Nick B.
05-27-2005, 09:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Tru, neither hand is automatic..I think either way on both are acceptable, however overtime the A6s push is +ev, so why not just stay with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I thought it was +ev I would push it.

DasLeben
05-27-2005, 09:11 PM
I call the 1st if UTG has been loose. If he's been playing tight, I muck.

I push #2 without a second thought, but some people have been saying that it's not correct. I don't have eastbay's program on this computer, so would someone run the hand through there? Either way, I'd put up good money that it's +EV (and not even close for that matter).

curtains
05-27-2005, 09:26 PM
I ran it putting the 2 bigger stacks on tis range range: 44+,A7s+,A9o+,KJs+

And I put the shorter stacks on the following range:

22+,A2s+,A3o+,KTs+,KJo+,QJs


Using these parameters it's +.4% EV (Which in my opinion is an unforgivable amount to give up on the bubble with high blinds). Of course you can say my calling ranges are too tight, or that eastbay's program is somehow flawed here, but I just don't believe it. I can see no serious argument for folding a hand that is +chip EV, and also seemingly +EV against all but the loosest opponents and with over 1/3rd of your stack likely going to the blinds in a few hands.

Myst
05-27-2005, 09:31 PM
Something is wrong here... If Gigabet is willing to push 1445 chips when the blinds are 100/200 with Queen 8 suited in the $100k game, and people here are advocating a fold with Ace 6 offsuit with the blinds at 150/300 in the $10 game, then 2+2 has gone insane.

TruFloridaGator
05-27-2005, 09:40 PM
ugh, what are the numbers? I haven't run them..

Newt_Buggs
05-27-2005, 09:43 PM
hand 2 is an easy, +EV push

hand 1 is tricky but I'm probably folding for the above reasons. However, I might call if I know that UTG is a very solid player (unlikely at an $11) because his pushing range will be so wide

curtains
05-27-2005, 09:47 PM
I just posted some numbers above.

Nick B.
05-27-2005, 09:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I ran it putting the 2 bigger stacks on tis range range: 44+,A7s+,A9o+,KJs+

And I put the shorter stacks on the following range:

22+,A2s+,A3o+,KTs+,KJo+,QJs


Using these parameters it's +.4% EV (Which in my opinion is an unforgivable amount to give up on the bubble with high blinds). Of course you can say my calling ranges are too tight, or that eastbay's program is somehow flawed here, but I just don't believe it. I can see no serious argument for folding a hand that is +chip EV, and also seemingly +EV against all but the loosest opponents and with over 1/3rd of your stack likely going to the blinds in a few hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have eastbay's program, and I can't give you a bunch of numbers proving my stance. I just know I would fold this hand in my game. Put a 2bb stack in the BB and I would probably push. I also think your range of hands that will call is too loose.

EasilyFound
05-27-2005, 09:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I ran it putting the 2 bigger stacks on tis range range: 44+,A7s+,A9o+,KJs+

And I put the shorter stacks on the following range:

22+,A2s+,A3o+,KTs+,KJo+,QJs


Using these parameters it's +.4% EV (Which in my opinion is an unforgivable amount to give up on the bubble with high blinds). Of course you can say my calling ranges are too tight, or that eastbay's program is somehow flawed here, but I just don't believe it. I can see no serious argument for folding a hand that is +chip EV, and also seemingly +EV against all but the loosest opponents and with over 1/3rd of your stack likely going to the blinds in a few hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

These numbers are for hand 2? or both, somehow? i'm confused.

TruFloridaGator
05-27-2005, 09:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I ran it putting the 2 bigger stacks on tis range range: 44+,A7s+,A9o+,KJs+

And I put the shorter stacks on the following range:

22+,A2s+,A3o+,KTs+,KJo+,QJs


Using these parameters it's +.4% EV (Which in my opinion is an unforgivable amount to give up on the bubble with high blinds). Of course you can say my calling ranges are too tight, or that eastbay's program is somehow flawed here, but I just don't believe it. I can see no serious argument for folding a hand that is +chip EV, and also seemingly +EV against all but the loosest opponents and with over 1/3rd of your stack likely going to the blinds in a few hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have eastbay's program, and I can't give you a bunch of numbers proving my stance. I just know I would fold this hand in my game. Put a 2bb stack in the BB and I would probably push. I also think your range of hands that will call is too loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? You want the FE, that's the whole point.

curtains
05-27-2005, 10:14 PM
I made my range of hands that would call too loose so there would be less doubt. Obviously if they are tighter the EV you gain is much higher. Why would you want the BB to have less chips when you push, thus making it a lot more likely they will call?

valenzuela
05-27-2005, 10:21 PM
Hand 1 is a fold IMO, ppl dont know how to steal blinds in the 11s so I doubt he has A6( he would limp with A6, this isnt sarcasm btw its an actual fact).
Hand 2 is a very easy push, u have an ace which is a monster with the gap and less than 5xx the BB. Position might be a bit eeky however but A6 far overcompensates that.

EasilyFound
05-27-2005, 11:50 PM
Many thanks to all of you who took the time to post, great information.

BTW, I folded hand #1 and pushed hand #2.

Cheers.

kiffl
05-27-2005, 11:59 PM
I call in hand #1 and push in hand #2.