Middle game discussion

[vindikation]

I did a search and found a few topics on the middle game, but not too many. We have a lot of bubble discussions here, but not too many discussions about the middle game that usually precedes the bubble. I am defining middle game by times when the BB is usually around $100, you have around 12BB's, and there are usually 6-8 people left.

1). In addition to only playing premium hands (like the first few levels), is this the place where your game needs to open up a little more?

2). Is this where the cards you hold start to matter less and reading opponents and stealing blinds comes into play?

3). You're not shortstacked (by the definition above) so I'm not sure about pushing with middle pocket pairs, AK, etc.

4). It is also before the bubble so making risky plays or bluffs is probably not the best thing to do?

I just moved from the $10's to the $20's last weekend and have noticed my middle game needs some improvement, so I thought I would bring up the topic, thanks.

[LeVoodoo]

I was getting ready to post a similar thread. I moved from PokerRoom (Where I believe you play) to Party and the middle game is the part where I am finding it hardest to adjust. The games are softer and the bubble is easier than i ever imagined, but I'm not used to having 600-800 chips at lvl 3-4 when there are 6 players remaining (at PR, I'd still have 1250 or so). I'm busting 5th & 6th very often, If i get through this stage, I finish ITM.

I'll add some questions to this thread later.

[BDarch]

Though I'm sure you've seen this thread lately with all the times its been refered to this is still a good thread about picking up some extra chips at level 3 and 4
PVS (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=199 7018&fpart=&PHPSESSID=)

[vindikation]

LeVoodoo,

Yeah my of 5th's & 6th's have shot way up this past week when I moved up from the 10's to the 20's. Right now 5th is my most common finish (20%) with 1st and 3rd being tied for the next two places (18% each).

DBarch,

Thanks for the link, something nice to go back and refresh on.

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
1). In addition to only playing premium hands (like the first few levels), is this the place where your game needs to open up a little more?

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely, but IMO, only if you need the chips. If I have t1200 or more, I'll try to just wait it out before really putting the screws to people with steals. The reason being: to conserve FE. With every steal, your FE (obviously) drops. I tend to like to wait until I can pick up t300 instead of t150. Another good reason to do this (other than the bigger blinds) is that people will respect your pushes more, assuming that you've been playing tightly prior to this.

[ QUOTE ]
2). Is this where the cards you hold start to matter less and reading opponents and stealing blinds comes into play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, but again, only if you need the chips. In 50/100, if it's folded to me in the SB and I have t800, it's still an easy push with almost any two.

[ QUOTE ]
3). You're not shortstacked (by the definition above) so I'm not sure about pushing with middle pocket pairs, AK, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is something I struggle a bit with, but I tend to like to bring these in with a standard raise if I have 12BB. If someone pushes over the top, I'll call.

[ QUOTE ]
4). It is also before the bubble so making risky plays or bluffs is probably not the best thing to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I say that waiting until 100/200 (if you can do it) is a good practice. People naturally start to tighten up a bit, and you can really add a lot to your stack during this time even if it's not quite bubble time.

[Ogre]

I have alot of 5ths and 6ths because that is the time I usually am pushing and doubling up or busting out. It is usually when the bb is 100 or 200.

[lastchance]

I like stealing here. Pots are worth taking down, people tend to respect pushes more than 3x BB raises...

That said, you don't have to steal with crap cards. # of active players left really matters, as you're doing most of you crap card stealing with only one or two active players left, and you're not raising crap from CO or earlier, but please raise out of the blinds into limpers.

12x BB is about the same as ten. With AK, pushing is always good. With 55-99, I also like pushing, especially since overcards suck.

With 12x BB, you need to pick up some chips. Not a lot, but if you get one of the prime stealing positions I described above, start picking up chips.

[luckyplayer]

I also have major issues with this. Granted I've only played about 50 stt's, but it seems like my bust outs will occur mid-late lvl 4 or early level 5. It seems that if I can get past this I've got a chance for getting to the money. But more often than not I'm getting 5th or 6th.

I generally approach level 4 on as push/fold territory. Usually I am sitting with ~600 chips. Lately I've been running simulations with Eastbay's calculator to see what the pushing range would be for each position at the table, giving the BB different stack sizes. That is at least giving me some concrete ideas about what is worth pushing.

[runner4life7]

SNG Power tools which i think is like $80, but is a great program, that you can put in each players chip stack estimated calling standards and then your hand and it will give the EV for pushing or folding. It is really great to see situations when you should be pushing with any 2 and then others where pushing with A8 is -EV. Im too cheap to get it but my roommate has it and from when ive used it, i think it is valuable especially when learning not only bubble play but middle play.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Though I'm sure you've seen this thread lately with all the times its been refered to this is still a good thread about picking up some extra chips at level 3 and 4
PVS (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=199 7018&fpart=&PHPSESSID=)

[/ QUOTE ]

This post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2312018&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1) contains some level 4 ramblings of questionable value.

[oxymoron]

I downloaded Eastbay's thingy but the drop down menu for the buy in only had $50 and higher. Is this useful for me since I only play the lower buy-ins?

[DasLeben]

You can change the structure. Just look in the options under "Structure."

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Though I'm sure you've seen this thread lately with all the times its been refered to this is still a good thread about picking up some extra chips at level 3 and 4
PVS (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=199 7018&fpart=&PHPSESSID=)

[/ QUOTE ]

This post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2312018&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1) contains some level 4 ramblings of questionable value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's what I was referring to in my post. I really like this approach, and I've been doing very well with it.